english elm compared to american elm

[snedeker]

I found a place in Pennsylvania, US, that has Wych Elm lumber.  How is it compared to American or White Elm?

Dave

[youngbowyer33]

from what i hear, it is better than both

[Marc St Louis]

American and White Elm are the same thing.  It's numerical values are similar to Slippery Elm but lower than Rock or Winged Elm

[adb]

I have a stave of red elm. Where does it fit in the equation?

[radius]

i could be wrong, but i thought red elm and slippery elm were the same plant.

[snedeker]

So in other words, English elm is good bow wood.

Yeah, Ulmus rubra is called, alternatively red elm, slippery elm, adn even gray elm.

Ulmus americana is american elm or sometimes called white elm

If ya get lumber I assume you'll get some heartwood.  have you found that to work pretty well backed Marc?

Dave

[Rod]

I made a bow of red elm some years ago and prefer it to ash.

Rod.

[Marc St Louis]

I've seen some descriptions, along with working properties of Red Elm that would lump it in with Slippery Elm yet others that would group it in with the harder Elms, such as Rock Elm.  I don't bother trying to identify Elm up here anymore as there are to many sub species.  To me it's either hard or soft

[half eye]

hey fellas,
      Here in Northern Michigan we have two types of Elm available. Red Elm (our loggers ans sawyers call it slippery elm) and Grey elm. I have made bows from both (allbeit not warbows) and my experiences were good with both...however:

These are the differences I noticed. Red Elm is more dense (heavier) and the grain (wood fibers) are more inter-tangled than the Grey. I have made 48" D bows that drew 28" all day and this unbacked selfbow worked well without any fretts or other noticable faults. The Grey elm is not all bad either, because in the case of using it as a backer you could choose this wood when over-powering the bow wood is an issue. Grey is less dense and less entangled....but still tough.

The red elm's fibers are really strongly entangled and you might find it nearly impossible to cause a clean break in it. The only fault with it (in my opinion) is that it will "fuzz" while you work and finish it....other than that as the Mod's said it is good bow wood.

Warbows are not my thing, and I'm pretty much ignorant of your bowery needs....but Red Elm is really tough, especially in tension and I recommend it highly.

for what it's worth
half eye

[Rod]

My red elm was got from a selected board and restored to stave condition by chasing a back ring.
I thought it easier the chase a ring in than osage and to compare favourably in performance and durability.

Rod.

[Marc St Louis]

As I said, there are just too many sub-species of Elm and after you've cut enough trees you realize that it's just a waste of time trying to positively identify them, I have cut a lot of Elm.  There are some species that are easily identified by looks, like Winged Elm for one but we don't get those up here.   

It is relatively easy to chase a ring with Elm, as long as the rings are wide enough.  When the rings get thin, and they can get pretty thin, it becomes a nightmare.  I don't care for very thin ringed Elm especially when those rings are on the back.  When I get Elm like that I will chase a ring till I get one at least 1/8" thick

I'll post some pictures of an Elm Warbow that I recently made that had that problem

[markinengland]

English Elm is a different tree to Wych Elm.

English Elm Ulmus procera

Wych Elm Ulmus glabra

These may both be different to what you have in the US.

[Jude]

I think that the problem is that elms readily hybridize, so if you have more than one species in a given area, you will get all sorts of crossbreeds.  There are several species of asian elms planted as ornamentals, and there has been a lot of purposful crossbreeding with them and american elm in an attempt to breed a Dutch Elm Disease resistant strain.

[Badger]

   I don't know one elm from another but have found elm to be one of the most predictable well behaved bow woods I have worked with. Very consistent when compared with most other woods.
  Red Elm I have made quite a few bow with and find it entirely different from the other elms, lighter wood, and prone to chrysaling. Very fast if the bow survives. Not one of my favorites at all,  down low on the list. Steve

[Rod]

Trouble is Wych Elm suffered from Dutch Elm disease and I don't see much of it.
Last time I saw any in a yard it was from the Hebrides and was stunted growth and much more character than most of us would like to see in a stave or billet except the most confirmed snaky bow addict.
But if anyone does have access to some good wych elm I would expect them to grab it and make a bow.

rod.