Chasing my first osage rings here

[Kirkll]

Here we go gentlemen, i have begun chasing my first rings on my first self bow project. i need to find a decent draw knife, but for now these old planer blades i've got work fairly good with a pair of leather gloves. as hard as this osage is, it carves pretty nicely with a good sharp blade.

David told me he left a couple rings to chase here to give me some experience, well right out of the chute i got down 3 rings at the tip, so what is a guy to do... 3 rings it is....

then i thought, maybe i better stop here before going any further, and ask you guys how you choose the ring you want to stop at?

 i got the feel of my home made draw knife down  pretty good so i can get the top two rings off pretty efficeintly, and put the sneak on the last ring i'm leaving for the back, by going slowly and scraping  into the ring i'm removing.

here's a few photo's..... all sugestions are welcome guys.

[Pat B]

I prefer to work one ring at a time and usually start at the end closest to me, start about 8" out from the end and work back then go another 8" and work back, etc. This way your chance of lifting a ling splinter is minimized.   Looks like you are doing fine with your makeshift draw knife. If you can add handles perpendicular to the blade it may give you better control. 

[Dean Marlow]

Looks like to me you are on the right path. Your lighting is perfect in your pics for chasing rings. I turn my drawknife around and use the backside of the blade when I am chasing rings. Just take your top ring off then go to the next one and do the same thing until you get to the ring you want. Looks good. If you want a drawknife look on the big auction site and there will be several on there. If you have any antique stores around you check them out also.

[George Tsoukalas]

I find the ring I want. Go up the right away from me for about a foot,down the middle toward me and up the left. YOu know you have about 5 violations in that first pic? Just checking. Jawge

[RidgeRunner]

Kirkill:
Can you post a " good close up " photo of the " ends " of you stave?
Just like it is in the vice.

Pat, Dean and George give good advice.
Each white line across the stave is a ring.  Work each one down to the far end separately.
Then go back to the next white line and work the next ring down to the far end.
When you decide which ring you are going to use don't cut into the hard wood ring below the soft, crunchy, early wood above it.
The white lines are the early wood.

David

[Kirkll]

first of all... there is no dry crunchy wood on this stave at all that i've noticed. i'm getting nice long curls of wood even when scraping. i'm uncertain how many rings were pulled off this stave before i got it from dave. i have noticed its a wee bit crumbly right before i break into the winter growth ring. Is that what you are calling the "late growth"

i appologize for my lack of bowyers terminology here.

the reason i've got 3 rings going at a time here is that i was looking for a color change that was a bit more pronounced. by the time i got the lighting just right and figured out how to read the ring changes.... i was down 3 rings..... actually i got into the tip of the fourth ring at the very end of the stave. so i figured i'd work each ring as i go down the stave.

is there a particular reason why you guys prefer going one ring at a time?

Dean, could you point out these said "violations"? if each ring line, and that knot swirl at the edge constitutes these, i understand where you are coming from. if not you lost me.

now back to my original question.... How do i know which ring i want?   Do i pick out a thicker winter growth or late ring, or will any nice smooth one work.... i'm flying blind here guys.

thanks for your patience guys.... if it makes you feel any better, i typically catch on pretty quick if it has something to do with wood.

[George Tsoukalas]

I go right to it. Up the right, down the middle and up the left. Never loose the ring I want. I use my push knife and shavehooks. The push knife (bottom) pushes the upper rings away. The curved shavehooks are good for scraping. A curved scraper will also work. Jawge

[sulphur]

kirk when you know you are on the ring you want to use i carve with my draw knife unitl i hit the pithy, spongy looking stuff.  From there i clean it up with a scraper.  I generally use the first decently thick ring as my back.  I have found that once you get to a certain thickness (say 1/8")  thats usually good enough.  Most rings in smaller trees are thicker, and more thinner in old trees.  Just don't break through your intended ring and your going to be fine.  Looks like your doing a good job to me!  also keep your ears open for that zipper sound as your removing wood, that will be that pithy, spongy layer that is on top of your bows back.

[Kirkll]

Thanks supher. all these winter growth rings are running about 3/32" thick and are pretty evenly spaced. whithout having a clue what i'm doing here, id say the stave has the makings for a good stout bow.

oh she's got some wiggles to her i'll have to work around, and definetely some bending is in my future.

hey George, i'm really glad to hear you are so profiecent at this stuff and all..... but you didn't answer my question?  would you be kind enough to point out what these violations you were talking about in your earlier post? you got me going here.

Thanks, Kirk

[Pappy]

Looks like you are getting it.I usually go one ring at a time also but it really don't matter.I always start in the middle of the stave,find the ring I want ,get it clean all the way across then bring it toward me to the end,then turn the stave around and bring it to me again with the other half of the stave. May be Bass ackwards but that is how I learned,I also use a draw knife bevel up.
    Pappy

[DCM4]

That stave has generous thickness Kirk, so I think if you chase a fat ring (the 3rd you've started) it's no problem.  Even the 4th you've started should come off but you arent' completely committed just yet, no farther than you've gone.  I need to see the ends of it again to be sure.  I'm working from memory.  Seems like there were lots of tiny rings, most of which I chased off, then the good fat ones started.  I probably chased off 8 or 10 heartwood rings, all tiny, in addition to the sapwood.  I know I chased off 3 or 4 one at a time, and tend to take a few when they are little like with the sapwood passes, just gouging out as quickly as my arms will carry me.

I'd imagine the ends look like the leftmost one here.  Any of them fat ones is good.  All you are concerned with is have one fat continuous ring end to end, with no marks, gouges, nicks or splits in it.

The topmost arrow on the left pic shows you want to get the light colored stuff off the top, but no more.  The second arrow underneath is what folks call the crunchy stuff, but that stave is so tight ringed it's crunchy stuff ain't thick enough to actually be crunchy, or even pronounced enough to "feel."  But as your pics show, easily found.

The rightmost pic shows sapwood, white wood, which you may not have ever seen on osage in person.  But that specimen is far from typical, being an extremely fast growing tree.  Most have several smaller whitewood rings, more like the size of the heartwood you see.  In this one tree the heart started closer to the bark.  You can also see in it (maybe, in person for sure) what are called "lunar" rings, intermixed within the summer growth.  Seems like I read its like a mini-seasons within the summer season, where moonlit vs. dark night cycles make their own tiny soft rings within the summer ring.  But the tree has to lay down growth really fast to see it usually.

I always get confused about what to call the winter growth, the spongy soft stuff, and the hard, more wood-like summer growth.

Looks like you are off to a good start.  I'd encourage you to take one ring at a time.  Then if you get a surprise somewhere along the way you got options.  Once you started a ring, there's no going back.  Also, clean up the knot end, as tedious as it is. 

[George Tsoukalas]

"hey George, i'm really glad to hear you are so profiecent at this stuff and all..... but you didn't answer my question?  would you be kind enough to point out what these violations you were talking about in your earlier post? you got me going here."

Are you getting frustrated, kirk? I didn't say I was really proficient. Those are your words. My apologies for coming across as a know-it-all. Just trying to help. I didn't see your question in previous posts. ridgerunner did point them out to you which is why I didn't.  Jawge

[Kirkll]

"hey George, i'm really glad to hear you are so profiecent at this stuff and all..... but you didn't answer my question?  would you be kind enough to point out what these violations you were talking about in your earlier post? you got me going here."

Are you getting frustrated, kirk? I didn't say I was really proficient. Those are your words. My apologies for coming across as a know-it-all. Just trying to help. I didn't see your question in previous posts. ridgerunner did point them out to you which is why I didn't.  Jawge

much too early in the game for frustation here George. i'm just a rookie here with quite a few basic questions is all. i'd just hate to get too gung-ho on this thing and screw it up. i'll get the hang of it quickly with you guys helping me, i'm quite sure.   thanks for your help.

David.... really good info there... i'll take more photos and post again later...... Kirk

[RidgeRunner]

George:
I wondered if you would chime back in....

Kirk:
If you could remove the TOP ring all the way to the other end of the stave, and then post a new photo of the stave, WE would all feel much better.

We are all so used to talking this Bow lingo that we sometimes forget that we all had to learn sometime back in the past.  

Try to use your blade like a draw knife.  It should work and it will be much easer to do.  Turn it "upside down" and then tilt the back of it up so the bevel is flat on the wood.  Then " pull " it into the top most "showing" crumbly white line.  The ring on top will peel off quite easy.  It will surprise you.

You have cut through four rings.  Unless you are planning on sawing the end off you will have to remove all four of these rings.
This is what " violations " in this case means.  More that one ring showing on the back.

Thanks
David

[The Gopher]

can you say can of worms? I just love chasing a ring with my dull drawknife (never gets sharpened) a dull drawknife isn't acting like a knife at all, you use it more like a wedge, once you get it started on some of the crumbly earlywood you can follow a ring quite easily without cutting through the tough earlywood underneath. the wood doesn't come of in nice curls it pops off in big chunks.  this is the only time a would use a dull knife, but as i mentioned it is no longer functioning as a knife it is a "drawwedge".

I also chase one ring at a time, primarily because with the drawwedge technique it is easier to wedge off one layer instead of 3 or more at a time.

I have very little experience compared to others here, but i think choosing a ring depends largely on your ability to chase rings, and by ability i mean patience. it takes more time to chase a thin ring just because you need to be more careful. if the top two rings of heartwood are 1/16" thick and the 3rd one down is 3/16" thick i'll go down to that thick one every time, it's just not worth the effort to chase a thin ring if there is a thicker one within a reasonable distance. but...chasing a thin ring is good practice