Choosing a design to match your stave?

[DCM4]

I always side tiller once I get one shooting Art.  All part of the process.  I'm liable to take width off the skinny end of the limbs 3 or 4 cycles til I get it shooting nice.  Same on glass projects actually.  I don't do paint by numbers, perhaps take too much for granted.

I generally don't width tiller the inner limb, and like the profile of the bow on the right in the pics above, with a little stiffness on the outer limbs for obvious reasons.  Another reason I tweak off as much mass as I can from the width on the outer limbs.  Stiff'ish but not heavy works best for me.

[artcher1]

 

This project won't allow for an arbitrary design and layout, like a pyramid shape or whatever.  Save that for a nice clean whitewood stave or a board or boo backed project.  Rather follow the grain along it's wiggly path and plan for about 1 1/2 width from fades to midlimb like was already suggested.

Insert Quote
I always side tiller once I get one shooting Art.  All part of the process.  I'm liable to take width off the skinny end of the limbs 3 or 4 cycles til I get it shooting nice.  Same on glass projects actually.  I don't do paint by numbers, perhaps take too much for granted.

I generally don't width tiller the inner limb, and like the profile of the bow on the right in the pics above, with a little stiffness on the outer limbs for obvious reasons.  Another reason I tweak off as much mass as I can from the width on the outer limbs.  Stiff'ish but not heavy works best for me.

I was just inquiring about Kirk's stave David.

[DCM4]

That's what I thought you meant Art, and what I responded too.  I'd side tiller his project when the time comes.  Do 'em all that way.  I already warned him to leave a little extra width to allow for this.... I think we're talking about the same thing.

[artcher1]

Thanks for explaining that again David . Yep, same thing.   ART

[Kirkll]

Now we are cooking.   It's going to take me a bit to pick up on the self bowyer terminology. but i think you guys are getting through to me.

 being an old carpenter is going to be a valuable asset in this adventure i'm thinking. the old term "Roll with the flow",  i'm quite sure had something to do with  reading grain in a piece of wood like a news paper, instead of just  seeing wavy lines.... i can do that... but learning how it effects the tiller  should prove interesting.

i'm actually glad you left a couple rings to chase here David. Although i may regret that statement until i get the hang of it.   this is definately the hardest, most dense piece of wood i've ever thought about working with hand tools. i got a feeling i got some good excersize in my future here.

thanks for the illustration Jawge. It looks just like the layout David drew on this one. i'm quite certain i'll have a buch more questions for you guys before it's all said and done. thanks for the support.

[DCM4]

Focus on process Kirk, forget about product for now.  You are not making a bow at this point.  Now all you are concerned with is taking 1 ring off without, literally without touching the underlying ring.  Then you do that all over again, end to end.  Then you can move on to the next step.  It's about the ride buddy.  If you want a good bow, they are a dime a dozen.    That's not what we're about here.  Not just yet.

The wiggly part won't make no diff when you get the limbs bending.  The way we trial and error tiller selfbows takes care of that.  The stave will tell us how to make it work right, not visa-versa as with a lam project.

[Badger]

Kirk, do you have a cabinet scraper and a draw knife? One thing about chaseing a ring on osage is that there is such a difference between the early wood and the late wood. The early wood is crusty and soft, you can run a ring blind almost just by feel. I usually chase down to the ring I want and leave quite a bit of early wood not cleaned off by the draw knife, then I go back with the cabinet scraper and clean it up real good. After my back is cleaned up and ready I also run a ring on the belly, this gets the stave very well oriented and makes it easier to work. Once you get a ring on the belly all you do is just take off one full ring at a time until the bow starts to slightly flex when you push it hard to the floor. At this point you slow down and start thinkinf about laying the bow out, you are ready to start tillering. Steve

[artcher1]

Hey Kirk, being and old carperter like myself, you probably got an ol' wood spoon making tool laying around . Best tool there is for working around knots and chasing those valley rings. ART

[George Tsoukalas]

[George Tsoukalas]

Those are my chasin' tools. Top to bottom. You got your standard drawknife. It pulls  towards  you. You got your shavehooks. The curved ones work really well for those dippy rings. Using a straight scraper will not work on those hippy dippy rings. You got your push knife. Works great for pushing off those top rings. It literally pushes away. Also does double duty as a scraper. Awesome tool. I used to use a meat cleaver as a scraper but no longer. A curved scraper will also do the job on the roller coaster rings. Jawge

[Kirkll]

i got the stave in my wood vise today, but didn't have time to roll up my sleaves and do much. i looked all over for my stack of cabinet scrappers, and couldn't find the dad burn things.... what i did find is makin's for a dandy scraping tool, and a push knife too. i came up with a pair of old 12" thickness planer blades i've had kicking around here for 20 years. they were brand new until some smuck ran a board through the planer with a nail in it... so both of them has a chip out of the blade, but the rest has a nice edge on it. i took a few swipes down the back of that stave and had beautiful yellow curlies coming off smooth as silk.

now i don't know that i've ever used a push knife before. but i got the makings for a dandy straight scraper right here.

it ain't much guys, but it's a start. i'll do some more rooting for my draw knives tonight.

[DCM4]

I use a chunk of broke planer blade some myself.  I should take a grinder to it and make some handles, but all I did was wrap some leather around.  I sharpened the square corners too.  Good for bulk work, in between a draw knife and scraper.  I sometimes will flex a cabinet scraper for finesse work, which you can't with a stiff blade like that.

Those last 2 rings are fine, fortunately, so if you don't find your draw knife you can get by with scraping.  Even with the draw knife you'll find one direction (along the lenght) you work against the grain, the other with (but you knew that).  Against goes faster but more likely to pull a splinter behind a knot.  I generally go with the grain on the last ring for sure, and even then when I come to a knot I'll relieve the back of it first so it doesn't pull a splinter.  I don't recall a whole lot of knots on that save, but a considerable amount of swirl in the grain which is it's own challenge.

Looks like you got a decent camera.  Post pics when you come to questions.  I'll try to check in over the weekend, but yer in good hands here.  Some of these boys throw some humdinger projects, as I'm sure you've seen.  I mean plumb humdinger too.

Oh, let's go on and get this settled now.  One doesn't do a cut in arrow rest on a selfbow.  There's folks that do it, and I even admire it, but it's an abomination in my opinion.  So if you roll that way, I'm gonna cast bad juju on yer arse.  Building up with leather is fine though, so it's no real sacrifice imho.  This will give you a sense of what wood you'll have left in the handle area.  You can see I like for my bows to work most up into the fades, but only just a smidge.

[George Tsoukalas]

"Oh, let's go on and get this settled now.  One doesn't do a cut in arrow rest on a selfbow."
Friend: "George, will you help me build a bow."
George: "Sure, I'd be happy to."
Friend: "Oh I want one with a cut in arrow rest and center shot."
George: "Ummm. Nope. Not if you want my help."
We built a nice osage bow with a glued on leather arrow rest. He's go a 33 inch draw so it was quite challenging.
Hold your ground, David.
There's still room for us hard liners.
Jawge

[Kirkll]

This is good info guys. I love it. So long as were are setting ground rules i might as well be straight up here. i never.... i repeat never, get offended when seeking knowlege from others. ....oh sure... i got a lot of wood working back ground, and have built a pretty good batch of glass backed bows....

 but i've learned many moons ago, that a man who truely wants to seek knowedge and understanding about something, must learn first to set aside what he "thinks" he already knows about the subject, and listen, watch, and ask questions. anything else just goes "against the grain" if you'll pardon the pun.

so you guys don't worry about pulling punches with old Kirk here. i'm what you call seasoned, but flexible...... i'm also an opinionated ol' cuss at times.

Jawge, i cannot even imagine a 70# self bow drawing 33"...How long was this bow anyway? 80"?   and he wanted a shelf cut out past center?    i wouldn't take that project on using composites myself. you are a better man than i.....

David, i'm one of those kind of woodworkers that can sand on the same piece of wood all day and have the patience of Job. my phylosophy about going against the grain vs with the grain would be why do it at all if you don't have too? there are enough of those times in life we are forced to do it, that it's a good thing to learn how though....i prefer long thin curlies over chips on the floor any day brutha.

Nice looking work there on those grips.  Are you guys going to help me with that part too? i've always wondered how you make those beautifal leather grips.

[DCM4]

Soup to nuts baby.  No worries.

WRT against the grain, after you back down a few dozen of them mothers from the bark you start looking at shortcuts differently.

WRT to advice, listen to it, process it, then do what YOU know to do.  Advice ain't fer beans until you make sense of it.  Another way to say, we can only tell you how we make a bow, and chances are there's differences amoung us in most aspects.