Non-Primitive Bow Materials

[OldBow]

There has been some concern over the use of phenolic in making bows, in this case the handle. The concern is that phenolic is not a true natural material. But we use Urac-185 and resorcinol glues in making laminated bows. These substances are absolutely not natural. Google up phenolic, Urac-185 and resorcinol and you will see what I mean. Without suitable glues, there will be no Laminate Bow of the Month entries.

[Pat B]

Don, I believe as long as these materials are used only as accessory(tip and handle overlays or in a built-up handle riser) and not used in the performance of the bow, they should be acceptable.

[George Tsoukalas]

I agree with Pat. But I have to admit I use B 50 for strings and feel pretty guilty about using the stuff on a selfbow. But just a caveat. We have to watch the steadily encroaching non natural materials in the Primitive Selfbow contest. Jawge

[knightd]

If used as pat states..I to think they should be accepted.

[Josh]

...so are you saying that if we use Urac 185 to glue up our bows that they cannot contend in the laminate bow of the month contest?   If so that's cool just need to know of a more suitable glue to use instead.     -josh

[Pat B]

Josh, that's what OldBow is asking. IMO, modern glues are acceptable. Phenolic limb lams are not!

[M-P]

Laminate bows were and are made with hide glues.  I don't think that substituting modern and more waterproof glues makes a difference in performance, or appearence.  But, substituting high tech for working parts of the bow does seem likely to affect performance and appearance.  I'm sure they make good bows, just not what this forum is about.   My opinion.    Ron

[shikari]

I know what you gents are talking about as I was trying to find pure raw silk thread for strings and so far have not been able to find any anywhere,now if I was in India I could get it in any city,same goes for pure hise glue(pearl glue).

[Marc St Louis]

Hide glue is a bit difficult to use when gluing up laminates because it gels too fast, I've done it but it is a pain.  A good alternative is fish glue as it stays liquid and it is pretty strong

[kylerprochaska]

I don't think that the non primitive aspect should be looked down upon so much....keep it at NO fiberglass and NO "non primitive" materials that add to bow performance...for example im sure we've all used true oil or some other kind of waterproof finish that isn't primitive but they don't add anything to the way the bow performs...in that case I think it would be ok....just my opinion...

-ky

[Jesse]

I agree with Pat also. If its just used cosmetically and not for performance or as part of the limbs I think it should be allowed. I would think that phenolic in the handle would be less offensive than a b50 string or tb or urac glues. Its not hard to make a bow without phenolic in the handle but its a bit more difficult to make a good hunting bow glued with hide or fish glue and a sinew string. I think the strings ,glues, and sealers we use are cheating a little bit but most seem willing to use them and its been accepted so far. I guess there could be another class added of truly primitive material bows but it would be a select few that would be willing to go that route often. I think its fine the way it is now. we all have our own personal limits beyond what pa accepts. Most people here I suspect wouldnt want to use phenolic in their bows anyways  

[Swamp Bow]

I'd also consider it a safety issue.  Period pewter drinking vessels were made with leaded pewter, I'm not drinking out of those anymore, not when the "safe" pewter looks just fine.  The modern glues look just fine to me as well, and have a better margin of error.  You would also have to get rid of any bow that was not made out of the right combination of woods, not using the right finish (or lack there of), not using brain tanned leather,  period dyes, period nocks, period shapes, etc etc.  While some folks strive towards historically accurate gear, and I can only encourage/emulate that, I think the vast majority just want to keep the essence of traditional or primitive gear.  Just look at the popularity of "modern American style long bows", I like them too.  Unfortunately it's a bit of a blurry line unless you want a completely accurate kit.  I think you would have to make a subcategory for completely period/primitive gear.  I would love to see that and it would get my vote to start one, but after reading some of the BOM/best arrow back logs, I understand the logistical , and financial nightmare that posses.  PA generosity towards it's readers and forum users is above average as it is.  IMHO

Swamp

[The Gopher]

uh oh, we're on the slippery slope. i could build a bow with 100% natural materials, milkweed string, and finished with bear fat. but what if i ordered the stave on the internet, used a bandsaw to rough out the bow, cut down the milkweed with my gas powered weed eater, and shot the bear with a scoped center-fire rifle (By the way i haven't done any of these things except the bandsaw part).

i agree with pat, as long as it is non-performance enhancing it is OK for laminates.

[Badger]

   We went through a similar issue in the official flight shooting committee which is associated with the olympics. They decided synthetic glues would be accepted as they added no performance benefit and were difficult to prove or disprove in bows. We still have to use natural strings as these bows are judged strictly on performance. I don't see where synthetic strings should be an issue where the bow itself is actually what is being judged. Phenolic or any other synthetic laminated to the bow itself I would rather see disqualified. Steve

[Josh]

I agree with Badger