Miwok bow #5. testing the limits of primitive design, incense cedar and sinew

[loefflerchuck]

  To answer a few more questions. Rileyconcrete I sent you a personal message. There is a heavy backing of sinew. I started out with 3 thick courses, and after tillering produced a disappointing weight I added another 1.5 layers which raised the weight 14# and increased the reflex further. The sinew is at least 1/3 of the thickness.
 The total Length knock to knock is 38.75". With the reflex, unstrung almost 37. This one is 1.5" wide above the handle tapering from there. A previous couple I made did not taper much as far as width and had fretting that was delt with as shown in Boyer's bible 3. Tapered down and had no repeats. The thickness above the handle is 3/4", and the cross section is a flattened oval.
 As far as the compression strength of incense cedar. I have made 7 of these bows in the last couple years. I started off using the strait trunk, that worked okay. All the info I have read says the limbs were preferred, and I can see why. It has closer grain and cannot be compaired to the trunk as far as performance goes. The limbs are far superior. One more note. It was reported the Miwok made there bows of green wood. The first one I made was very green and after it was finished and backed with sinew it warped to the side. I used it to see how far it could be pulled before braking. I still shape the bows green, but wait a while to make sure the core is sound before I back it.
  There is lots of information on line about these bows I don't have documented right now. Craig Bates wrote a study on the bows called "the reflexed sinew-backed bow of the Sierra Miwok. It has a good bit of info on the bows, but lacks any info about the arrows used. That can be found with a bit of diligent google searching. The Lowie Museum of Anthropology has 2 wonderful specimens I have had the opportunity to examine. I have learned alot about these bows in the last few years from research, construction and shooting. I may submit an article for the magazine after I learn a bit more.

[Blacktail]

thank you so much...i am going to print out all the info for future projects..this whole thing about incense cedar really blows my mind...it just goes to show you that the na people of this land where truely master minds...john

[Pappy]

Wow,that is to cool,tiller looks great.Very nice job on that one.
      Pappy

[fusizoli]

What do U think, is this possible with yew or what kind of other wood than cedar? I ve a lot of low dense yew billet , bends nicely and smooth draw. Made a test kid bow from without any problem ~ 20# at 17. Think to copy this project from that because I like it very much!

[dragonman]

have you got any info on performance? range? speed?

[loefflerchuck]

Fuzi. That is a cute little yew bow, will make a great gift to a youngster. I recently cut some yew and have about 10 staves I cant wait to work with. I have never worked with yew but I know that with sinew it will take quite a bend. That is why northern California tribes used the bent tab knock on there little yew bows, so the string would not slip off the knock when overdrawn. I have worked with juniper and it will take a bend with sinew. The piute made very short heavy reflexed bows of juniper with a thick backing of sinew.
  Dragonman. I have shot these bows alot at the walking range on kings mountain near me but plan to do some flight tests on these. I tested my previous replicas where I used the trunk of the cedar and with a fairly heavy long oak foreshafted cane arrow they shot over 150 yards. These were of the inferior trunk, and even with the backing followed the string a bit after being unstrung. The last 4 I have completed are limb bows. Made from select limbs with lots of natural reflex upward to the top of the limbs. I am up to 5 to 6 layers of sinew on these and before the first bracing they have over a foot of reflex. Within a hour of shooting they return to a nice reflex. I will test the cast with a native style arrow and post the resaults. I think it will be a bit better than the 150 yard trunk bows

[medicinewheel]

These profiles look AWSOME !!!
I have a stave of ERC; would want to make a sinew-backed bow of exactly such a profile! How long should such a bow be for my 29" draw??

[loefflerchuck]

 ERC would work great. If you make a native style that bends throughout the length of the bow and have a perfect tiller and good sinew backing you can get away with a little under 50" for 29" draw. But why not make a safer and more durable bow and make it 55". Still slightly overdrawn but not stressed to the max.

[fusizoli]

Thanks the info Chuck! Will split some for this ..... If have any more info it would be nice because havent got that book and not find more on net. May some more pics if U have. Made an experiment nock like that and yes it is rock hard and works!
I think from this low ring range local yew have to make it wider than a high dense one. May give it a try for boo just for fun.

[fusizoli]

Found this ....  http://books.google.hu/books?id=qSRLW5ziVFAC&pg=PA260&lpg=PA260&dq=miwok+bow&source=bl&ots=Gs6i59VWpv&sig=6b2tqtdNsgZids4MqGoDpECRU_U&hl=hu&ei=WxgxS-_bLZfWmQPfup3GBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CDUQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=miwok%20bow&f=false

bit more info

[medicinewheel]

ERC would work great. If you make a native style that bends throughout the length of the bow and have a perfect tiller and good sinew backing you can get away with a little under 50" for 29" draw. But why not make a safer and more durable bow and make it 55". Still slightly overdrawn but not stressed to the max.

I have 64" to work with if I recall right, and I would want a stiff handle, so that should do I guess!
I'll come back for help when I get started...
Happy holydays...l

[fusizoli]

Stiff handle for a Miwok bow?

[loefflerchuck]

We will call your stiff handle a modified Miwok bow. Today we know that a bit of extra length and a stiff handle will make an easier bow to deal with(for us). I like to make them 100% authentic cuz I want to see how they performed, not cuz I want to make the best hunting weapon by todays standards. Show me some pics when you are done

[fusizoli]

Those datas U post is from the core or the sinewed bow size? 3/4 at the handle with sinew? Schould U post some core datas, I ve carved out the first one from yew 36.4 long. Next will be longer up to 45, this one for experiment. Handle mid limb and tipp size would be nice. Thanks !

[rileyconcrete]

Fusizoli

I think you are right with 3/4" with the sinew.  I have one that is 38" n/n that has a bendy handle with sinew that pulls 68# @ 18" and is 7/16" but it does not have quiite as much sinew as Loefflerchucks.

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