Yew ring count

[shamus]

I used to think as you do that tight ringed Yew had to be more dense than Yew with a lower ring count.  I had to revise my way of thinking after buying some relatively tight ringed, about 50~60 rpi, Yew that was noticeably less dense than some lower ring count Yew I had.

There are bound to be exceptions to the rule, especially with organic material. Every piece of wood is different and needs to be treated individually.

[adb]

Mark, I do respect your knowledge as a bowyer and know you have a few years on me in that realm, However have a hard time agreeing with that statement. Higher ring count means more late wood (denser cell structure) less early wood (lighter cell structure) So it's hard to imagine that a 30-40 RPI could be denser then a 60-70 RPI.   Have you done any testing on your theory?
  I do agree that elasticity is more important then density, but yew is so elastic in general, that in yew, I don't find this to be a problem.

Keenan
I used to think as you do that tight ringed Yew had to be more dense than Yew with a lower ring count.  I had to revise my way of thinking after buying some relatively tight ringed, about 50~60 rpi, Yew that was noticeably less dense than some lower ring count Yew I had.

Hey, Marc
How did you go about assessing the yew stave's density?

[Marc St Louis]

Sorry Keenan, I didn't cut the trees.  The color of the wood was the same but the denser, lower ring count wood had a different look to it. 

Adam. It was easily apparent just by picking them up.  Now I don't know if there is any merit to this but I did read at some point that Yew had both male and female trees and that the female tree made better bows

[Dano]

"Now I don't know if there is any merit to this but I did read at some point that Yew had both male and female trees and that the female tree made better bows"

This has been argued over the years, and still there is no merit .

I say the better wood grows way up in the mountains, just like those big Brown Trout.

[radius]

i pulled in a good half dozen 6 foot logs yesterday, but even if they were taken from a high hillside where this nice man logs, i don't think the hills on vancouver island are high enough to really count. 

BUT!  Soon i am moving to the mainland with my new wife, and i'll be close to the coastal mountains of bc where i can hike and pull down some high elevation yew...next year or so i'll post in this thread again, and put in what i see.

[Gordon]

I don't really have an opinion as to which is better wood, i.e. high vs low ring count. As far as I'm concerned all yew staves deserve to be bows.

How's that bow coming along Keenan?

[Keenan]

It's still stronger then I can pull    But I think you could probably do it now. 

[radius]

gordon could do it, he's damn strong!

[Blacktail]

this is some thing i was thinking about when i went to bed last night...i just told keenan about my piece of yew wood and it had 43 rings per inch..and i was thinking man that small tree that is about 4-5 inch's around is older than i am...so,i was wondering how old some of the old growth yew trees i have see really are...in away it would be cool to count  the rings on some of the older trees BUT i like seeing them still standing and making seeds for years to come..john

[adb]

Yes, it makes you stop and think, doesn't it?! I didn't make a yew bow until I'd been making bows for about 5 years, as the thought of ruining something that is 100 years old was rather intimidating. Yew certainly deserves our respect.

[juniper junkie]

on the subject of ring count, I remember being shocked when doing the interview with Rose City on cedar shafts, Jerry told me that you cant go by ring count to determine the stiffness, spine of the wood. He said that through the years of making arrow shafts, he can determine where the highest spine trees come from in his area, and has nothing to do with ring count. it has more to do with the topography, soil, and wind in that area.  so now we can be confused further when I am checking out a yew stave to make a bow out of, I go for the heavier or more dense feeling stave, since these have yielded the best bows for me, if the stave is real light, the bow sometimes broke. maybe not initially, but eventually failed. I have read about the old time bowyers marking the uphill side of the stave, or the top of a limb, to make most use of the tension side of the tree. we may never know the truth, but is is sure fun experimenting

[Gordon]

I have read about the old time bowyers marking the uphill side of the stave, or the top of a limb, to make most use of the tension side of the tree. we may never know the truth, but is is sure fun experimenting

When it comes to tension woods such as vine maple, there is most certainly truth to this. As for yew, I don't know.

[Keenan]

I agree with the wind causing a tree to grow stronger, however that is also evident in the ring structure of a tree. A limb is an exaggerated example of a tree building natural structure to compensate for force. If you cut a limb growing horizontal to the ground (gravity) the tightest closest ring structure in on the top.  The bottom of the limb builds in more mass to compensate for the compresion. But the tension strength of the top of the limb is built by a tight dense ring structure.  Dave the bow that you I showed you today from that juniper limb that we got is about as dense of juniper as I have ever seen. (top of limb, tight ring count)  I think the force scenario is accurate, but is also evident by ring structure.
 Why eles would the tension side of the tree be considered the best. As you said most of the old timers marked the uphill or tension side of the tree or limb. The prospective on arrow spine is great food for thought but not sure that strong spine arrow wood equals good bow.  I had a piece of juniper that felt very strong, but just would not bend and exploded when pushed. Now that all our heads are spinning

 This has been a very thought provoking thread. As we know that other wood types have different degrease of strengths. It might be neat to see some more threads covering diffrent wood on the same subject. A few years ago I did some comparison with high elevation fir and low elevation fir to see if elevation changes could turn a poor bow wood into an acceptable bow wood. Though I don't believe that elev. can overcome genetic tendencies of the wood it did make it stronger due to growing conditions.



 

[juniper junkie]

even in the light of the ring count on arrows not being a factor to determine spine, I still gravitate to the thin ringed yew for bows. the old addage "the tougher the life, the stonger one is" seems to make sense with yew. if it struggles and fights to survive, the stonger it must become.  but, sometimes I get it just as it is getting ready to give up I guess the main question is "what would Yoda say?

[radius]

"what would Yoda say?

"Bend it you will!"