Author Topic: primative versus traditional  (Read 13911 times)

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Offline woodstick

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Re: primative versus traditional
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2009, 09:09:03 pm »
iam with pappy on this one. my 2 cents. who gives a rats a$@ as long as it aint got no wheels. nothing bad on wheel shooters but its not a stick and a string . i think as long as you shoot a bow, ie glass or natural. heck yea keep it up.
a drawn bow is a stick 9/10 broken

Offline sweeney3

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Re: primative versus traditional
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2009, 10:02:10 pm »
I just publicly displayed an emotion for the first time in three years, but it's okay cause I was laughing at the dead horse.  Love it.  Didn't know we had that one.

I'll buy what folks have said thus far.  Primative is great, but I'm sure most of use use some modern influence, even if it isn't reflected in the finished product.  We use a steel knife, scraper, saw, etc to shape the bow.  We also may sit in a chair in a climate controlled workshop (kitchen, in my case).  The idea is to have taken an active role in creating something that is neat and functional and that you can take pride in.  I still have some arras with plastic nocks on them, and I shoot them from a sinew backed bow, and that is fine with me for the time being.  I'm working on some rivercane arrows, but untill I get a lot better at breaking rocks, they are still going to have manufactured broadheads on them because I am not going to quit hunting untill I "get it" all.  If I did that, I'd never get to the woods. 

I grew up shooting a bow with wheels, then on a whim one day went to a fiberglass longbow from a major manufacturer, got bit by "the bug" and got two much older glass recurves, then got the sinew backed bow and that is what I prefer now.  I'm working on making my own bow, and am slowly but steadily sneaking up on being able to make all of my own equipment.  Someday, years down the road perhaps, I am going to wander naked into the woods with a stone knife and return fully clothed and well fed with a well-worn bow.  But, I'm not going to quit shooting and hunting in the meantime to get to that point in a hurry.

Offline islandpiper

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Re: primative versus traditional
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2009, 10:11:07 pm »
When I want to shoot primitive i don't shower or brush my teeth.....makes it all that much more AUTHENTIC. 

In 10,000 years the space creatures who control Earth will refer to all of us sitting here tonight as primitive........heck, they may be popping outer space popcorn and laughing at us right now.   

Where's my tin foil hat??

piper

Offline mullet

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Re: primative versus traditional
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2009, 10:34:08 pm »
 WOW! this is like an episode of the Twilight Zone. I think this came up once  before. ::) ???
Lakeland, Florida
 If you have to pull the trigger, is it really archery?

Offline sailordad

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Re: primative versus traditional
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2009, 12:11:17 am »
i dont and wont make a "f" bow,
i dont make trad gear or primitive gear.
i make self bows or board bows or wood/boo lam bows.and hand made arrows.
nothing primitive about them,just the noises that i make while making the bows and arrows
a little grunting,a little groaning and sometimes a whole lot of cussing >:D
i always wanted a harley,untill it became the "thing to ride"
i ride because i love to,not to be part of the crowd

Offline Pappy

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Re: primative versus traditional
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2009, 05:57:03 am »
How did I know. ;) ;D ;D ;D
   Pappy
Clarksville,Tennessee
TwinOaks Bowhunters
Life is Good

Offline GregB

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Re: primative versus traditional
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2009, 07:52:12 am »
I think the reason this topic always draws so much attention can be nailed down to one word...passion. Folks here are passionate about archery, and regardless of the direction that passion flows, I think that's a good thing! ;)
Greg

A rich person can be poor monetarily, the best things in life are free...

Offline II BYRDS

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Re: primative versus traditional
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2009, 08:48:00 am »
wow what did i start here  ;D. as far as what we use, to do what is that we do do ;D. if our ansesters had a steel draw knife they would have used it. if they had a steel file instead of some sand and stone they would have used it. if they had some two part epoxy they would have used it. i just did not want to cross the line on what i have been doing. i will be back!

Offline jamie

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Re: primative versus traditional
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2009, 09:29:57 am »
steve ya gotta show me where you come up with this stuff. too damn funny
"Man is a tool-using animal. Without tools he is nothing, with tools he is all."

waterbury, ct

Offline George Tsoukalas

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Re: primative versus traditional
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2009, 09:46:15 am »
Actually I do agree with yazoo on this. I shoot selfbows and self arrows. I make my bows and my shafts or I harvest shoot shafts. But my bow has a leather wedgie for a shelf, my handle coverings are put on with waterproof glue, my string is B 50, and my bow was made with metal tools and a belt sander. It is not a primitive bow. I don't worry about it much either. LOL. A truly primitive bow should have no shelf, all natural materials including the string and be made with stone tools. I think the type of tool used directly impacts the design of the bow. Try scraping out a flat bellied bow with stone. :) Jawge
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If you ain't breakin' you ain't makin!

Offline jamie

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Re: primative versus traditional
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2009, 09:59:29 am »
jawge you just have to use better rock . not that stuff you pulled off your sidewalk.  ;D
"Man is a tool-using animal. Without tools he is nothing, with tools he is all."

waterbury, ct

Offline Dane

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Re: primative versus traditional
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2009, 11:30:29 am »
This is always a cool topic, and is kind of philosophical vs. practical discussion.

My take is no one can really “go primitive” no matter even if you go off into the woods naked and depend on your skills to survive, or make a bow using only stone tools. All of us are trapped in our modern world, and are products of our education, society, mass media, the foods we eat, the preservatives in the food, the way we get to our job and around, the infrastructure like roads and electricity and GPS satellites, metals, petrochemicals, pharmaceuticals, agriculture, our system of law and order, and our religions. Even if you play primitive and try to replicate the conditions of our ancestors of 10,000 years ago, we are only playing, and seeing mere shadows of what was.

I was at my club in Deerfield felling an elm tree a few weeks ago, and it was around dusk when I was heading out with a 4” log perched over my shoulder. It was that weird time of day when the beautiful forest suddenly started becoming less than inviting, and I think most of you know what I am talking about. The light started failing, the ground fog started rising among the birch and elm tress, the sounds of the forest changed, and it felt a bit like I was in an ancient fairy tale, and not the happy kind that ends “they all lived happily ever after”. Times like that tell me that as much as I love the forest, I am not and will never truly be part of that kind of nature, but only a visitor. We are part of the world of automobiles, space exploration, TV and video, electricity, air conditioning, tools, fast food, books, and so on.

Struggling back to the car with this green trunk, I also thought about how easy we have it today, and how hard just cutting down a small tree and getting it home is. Imagine a world without metal, for instance. And think about how that metal is mined and then manufactured into common stuff like bolts and nails, how it is transported to factories, how the energy is produced to run the factories and the supply chain, and how it gets packaged and in stores and finally to us. And think about how you work and earn the money to get these things. Our ancestors would be totally amazed, and most of us don’t really understand how all of it works, too. It is nearly infinitely complex, and getting more so all the time.

It kind of reminds me of a discussion I had a few years ago with a historian from the U. of Akron about a WWII book project I am working on. Some WWII B-26 pilots and crew were looking into having some B-26 Marauders replicated and built. Only 1 B-26 exists in flying condition in the entire world, and the plan was to get a few build and licensed. It was possible to do this, but it would have cost them about $3 million a copy, but that money and those replica bombers would never do what the old guys really wanted. They had an idea that they could go back in time and relive some aspects of their WWII flying experience, but that is just not possible. While each single component of the planes could be replicated, the safety of flying through blue US skies instead of clouds of dark German flak, the radio net not broadcasting a tactical net out of England but modern air traffic, the age of the guys, all the rest would only allow them to get a feel for what they once did, but not really replicate that experience. That is impossible, just as someone participating in a WWII or Civil War battle reenactment can never really put themselves in a battle like Gettysburg or the Bulge or D Day. The Germans aren’t shooting back, blanks are in the muskets and the MP40s, and so on. Your odds of dying or getting your legs blow off are pretty much 0%. The fear will never be there, or the society that you would have come out of to have actually participated.

And that is the same as a stone age bow. You can touch on what an ancestor may have experienced, but only just. It is a direct way of touching a bow maker or archer of 10,000 years ago, but only that, and only barely. Aside from the artifact, which may be identical to what you will build using the same tools and of the same wood, the man behind the bow that you are and that a Paleo Indian was stares across an impossible to cross gulf of time and space and experience.

Dane
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline Jesse

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Re: primative versus traditional
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2009, 12:04:41 pm »
Just use what you like and dont let what somebody else likes make you think less of what you like. I make some bows that pretty much resemble modern longbows in every way possible except the materials used. I think it's safe to say most on here prefer a selfbow made without lamination but they still come on and tell me good job when I post a laminated bow. I think the most important thing is not to put down what somebody else likes. This site is for primitive bows but there are a lot of grey areas in that definition. I agree with Pappy and others. Just make or use what you like and dont worry about what its called.
"If you can find a path with no obstacles, it probably doesn't lead anywhere."
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Offline Josh

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Re: primative versus traditional
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2009, 01:33:04 pm »
Good words Dane.  Love the WWII analogy.   :)
“The trouble with quotes on the Internet is you never know if they are genuine.” —Abraham Lincoln

Offline George Tsoukalas

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Re: primative versus traditional
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2009, 02:11:48 pm »
Dane, that's true. Modern man can never truly build a primitive bow but that doesn't mean someone who wants to can't get as close as they can to the primitive experience. LOL, jamie, you are right. But even with steel tools the belly of the bow will be ever so slightly rounded especially if you want your tool to work at maximum efficiency. Jawge
Set Happens!
If you ain't breakin' you ain't makin!