Layout for black locust

[bigcountry]

I have a bunch of black locust staves I cut last year.  I was thinking of laying out a design on two or three of em.  I already chased a ring.  Would 1.75" be too narrow for a 68" black locust for 29" draw?  I was thinkin of limb designe being 1.75" about 12" up the limb, then pyamiding to 1/2" tips.  Would 2" be safer?

[George Tsoukalas]

That should be pretty good for a design. Make sure that's 68 in ntn.

[bigcountry]

Its going to be 67" NTN.  I cut these staves too short.  I really wanted them 70".  Thats the reason I thought about making them 2" wide.  I guess I could rough em out to 2" and later change my mind when I flloor tiller.

[Pat B]

Start out at 2" and if the limbs begin to get too thin reduce the width some as you tiller.

[bigcountry]

Start out at 2" and if the limbs begin to get too thin reduce the width some as you tiller.

Good idea.

[II BYRDS]

ok stupid question. i want to know for sure what locust is what. big long thorns / short thorns. big long seed pods dark in color??? i have lots of both locust, but hear one is one and one is another  what one are we talking about

[George Tsoukalas]

Black locust does not have thorns on the trunk. Honey locust does. Jawge

[nugget]

I always get confused on which had the thorns on what part.

[Hillbilly]

Honey locust is the one with the big long clusters of thorns on the trunk and long seedpods. Black locust only has thorns on saplings and twigs of older trees, hardly any on the mature trees. Black locust thorns are flat and triangular-kinda like overgrown blackberry thorns. BL has small, flat seedpods about 2-3" long, but the ones on honey locust can be a foot long.

As for the bow, 1 3/4" should be plenty wide. I've found that making them narrower and thicker they are less likely to hinge and chrysal than making them wide and thin. The last couple locust bows I've made have been about 1 5/8" out of the fades. Locust also works great for long, narrow, bend-through-the handle bows (Cherokee/Eastern Woodland flatbows.)

[bigcountry]

I am rather confused.  I thought the rule of thumb for a wood that chysals easy is to make it wide and longer than normal.   or is wider only for reducing set?  Sounds like BL is in a league of its own like Yew.

[George Tsoukalas]

big, you have it right. Make it wider and longer. The only drawback to making it wider is that wide bows can be a little harder to tiller than narrow ones. BL needs to have a nearly perfect tiller. Now as Pat noted, if the wood doesn't respond to belly removal and seems to be getting too thin, which can bring with it the possibility of hinging, then the limbs can be narrowed a little bit to bring the tiller home. I've only had to do that on reflexed bows. Jawge

[Hillbilly]

Jawge, I know you were scraping locust before I ever seen a bow, but I've honestly had nothing but trouble out of wide, thin limbed locust bows. Chrysal, chrysal, chrysal. Locust was used for hundreds of years by the Indians around here as their choice bow wood, and most of their bows were in the inch to inch-and-a-quarter width range (bending handle.) Probably my tillering skills or lack of, but locust is so dense that I always wind up with really thin limbs at those wide widths to get a 50 lb bow, and those thin limbs are really sensitive to the slightest irregularity and want to hinge and twist on me. I never made a decent shooter from locust until I started experimenting with narrower limbs. I agree with the make it longer part.

[George Tsoukalas]

Hillbilly, there's a lot to be said for that design that you like. Very interesting. I'll try it on BL sometime. I've actually had less chrysalling when I went to wider limbed BL bows about 65-66 in. ntn for a 26 in. draw. That may be a function of just getting better at tillering though as I continued to learn more years ago than I care to remember. LOL.  Too much longer than that won't do for hunting around here. The woods are too thick.  I do like the idea of  starting wide and narrowing the limbs as the bowyer proceeds all the while watching how the wood responds. Admittedly, that takes experience. It has been more than a few years since I made  a BL bow. I've gotta get back to my roots. BTW I think Tim Baker wrote about  using 1 5/8 in wide for BL but I found that too narrow for the BL in my yard. Now that we have thoroughly confused the beginners...Well, I guess they'll have to experiment and find what works for them. After all that's what we did. Jawge

[hedgeapple]

Jawge, Hillbilly, that has to be the politest disagreement I've ever seen on any forum.  It's guys like you, who make this site a joy to visit.  Thank you.

I, too, have a BL stave sitting here in my office.  I've just started chasing the ring on it.  It will be somewhere around 65" ntn.  I was wondering what dimentions would work best to get a Cherokee d-bow out of it.  While you two had different thoughts with pro's and con's for both, your information was quite value.

Good thing I have about 10 BL staves to work with.  haha  But, first I'll be practicing by making a hickory d-bow.  Then probably a hickory backed sassafras of undecided style. 

[Hillbilly]

Locust seems to be really variable wood, too-some of it is similar to osage, and some is pure junk. Now if I could figure out how to tell the difference "on the hoof." There may be regional variation also.