Author Topic: Silk between belly and backing?  (Read 2880 times)

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Ahnlaashock

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Silk between belly and backing?
« on: June 01, 2009, 12:33:20 am »
How would a silk backing put between a hickory back and a red oak belly work? 
Would it be stronger or weaker with a layer of silk between them? 

Offline adb

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Re: Silk between belly and backing?
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2009, 12:44:07 am »
I would think it would make the glue joint weaker. Why would you want to put silk between the backing and belly? You wouldn't even see it. Silk makes a fine backing, but not a mid layer for a tri-lam!

Offline Justin Snyder

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Re: Silk between belly and backing?
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2009, 01:24:41 am »
I agree with adb. It would be a complete waste of silk and time. The basic idea of a core is to add space between the back and the belly.  Since silk would not add space there isn't a reason to add it. Silk is great to add between wood and snakeskins, but not wood and wood.  Justin
Everything happens for a reason, sometimes the reason is you made a bad decision.


SW Utah

Ahnlaashock

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Re: Silk between belly and backing?
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2009, 02:02:45 am »
Guys wrote about using single and double layers of glass cloth between wood layers years back if I remember correctly. 
Just an old odd fact I know that combined with learning to build bows fermented an idea that grew into a question! 
Wasn't sure if it would hurt or help with something like silk.  Durable and stable being the goal, not added speed and zing.  I wondered if it would give that slight amount of buffering needed for the backing and belly woods to work together without figting each other.   I wondered if it might help with problems like chrysals on the belly wood in the higher efficiency designs. 
Maybe I ask too many questions!  I always wonder what if as I look at things!  I am very much still a curious child about the world.  I just don't have as much hair my head and a whole lot more scars these days!   I wern't pretty to start! 
Not the last question i will ask by far!

Offline elk country rp

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Re: Silk between belly and backing?
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2009, 04:25:31 am »
lol- i think you should tiller the red oak, then put it between the hickory & some ipe......

oh, wait- that's my answer for everything! nevermind.....
Rob

Offline Justin Snyder

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Re: Silk between belly and backing?
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2009, 11:55:21 am »
Questions are good since they get us all thinking. Ask away......

Problems like chrysals are created by too much compression on the wood. Different woods have different compression strengths so they fail at different points. The only way to stop this is to relieve some of the compression. This would require removing some of the backing or some of the belly.  The only feasible way for the core to reduce compression is by slipping witch would cause a de-lamination. I'm not sure why people would sandwich the fiberglass. I think with a great amount of detailed study you would find that a proper combination of wood (like bamboo back hickory core and ipe belly) would outperform the glass sandwich by a fair amount. A belly wood should be the densest or highest in compresion. The core should be kept as light as possible but still be solid. The back should be as high tension as possible.  Keep in mind that these all need to be kept in reason.  A super high tension back will crush and cause chrysals or fretting in a low compression belly. Alternatively, a high compression belly will explode a low tension back.  The trick is in the balance.  ;D
Everything happens for a reason, sometimes the reason is you made a bad decision.


SW Utah

Minuteman

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Re: Silk between belly and backing?
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2009, 01:05:04 pm »
I'd make a small limb mock up and try it out.Just a quicky 10" limb so you don't have a whole bow's worth of work in it if it blows. Might be something to it. I'd figure you would have to make sure the silk was totally saturated with the adhesive you used to make sure it was gonna hold together. But hey this is how new stuff is discovered, ya know. :)

Offline NOMADIC PIRATE

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Re: Silk between belly and backing?
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2009, 01:21:24 pm »
Give it a try, ....make a buildalong in the process...nver know ;)
NORTH SHORE, HAWAII

Offline wakosama

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Re: Silk between belly and backing?
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2009, 08:10:23 pm »
I believe the glass between the layers may have been to get a sufficient thickness for the glue to work, preventing excessive squeeze out.  Probably an early epoxy using loose weave mat.  Technique has been advocated in boatbuilding circles for awhile.
Think as if your LIFE depends on it... IT DOES...!