Length of time being loaded/Jonny Brown Hawken gun/tipis

[BowEd]

Just curious.How long can someone leave a muzzle loader loaded without damage to the walls of the barrel using conventional black powder?I use a pillow tick patch soaked in deer tallow and beewax around a round ball.I've left them for a week before with no damage.
I've read of guns that'll still fire after after years of being loaded but not as to the condition of the barrel wall.
When I load my gun to be sure it's dry I drop 5 to 10 grains of powder down the barrel and fire it out with a cap.Then load my my barrel.
I would think the lubrication from the greased patch would help deter most corrosion over an extended period of time.

[Don W]

Is it normal to leave a muzzle loader loaded. I've never felt comfortable with that.

[BowEd]

Yes it is.Many do it.Old timers did it all the time.Why would it be uncomfortable?If it's a safety thing your concerned about.If there's no cap on.It's safe.By law in Iowa a muzzle loader can be transported uncapped or no priming charge if in a gun case.

[Eric Krewson]

If you fire a squib load in your gun then load it with powder and ball you have done the same as firing a full charge and not cleaned your barrel for as long as you have left it loaded. This is VERY bad practice and unnecessary and could cause some serious rusting and pitting in your bore particularly at the breech.

I had a Knight rifle that wouldn't shoot accurately without a fouled bore so I did like you have been doing before I loaded, it didn't take long for the barrel to get really pitted inside. I was shooting pydrodex which is even more corrosive than B/P after it has been burned.

Black powder is stable and non corrosive until it burns, the residue is very corrosive after burning.

Firing a couple of caps before you load won't hurt a thing because they are non corrosive. This practice will burn out any oil in the flash chamber and and assure your gun will go off. It is a good idea to put a patch down the bore with your ramrod when you fire the caps to catch the oil that might be blown out and keep it out of your powder charge when you load. 

As for loading on a dry barrel, I leave my gun loaded from the first day of M/L season until I take a shot at a deer or not. I plug the touch hole with a toothpick to stop any moisture migration into the powder charge, my gun will go off like it had just been loaded 6 months later if I don't get a chance at a deer.

[BowEd]

From a stored barrel that's been oiled layed up I used to just fire off 2 caps/load it and she fires.I was hunting with my nephew once years ago and he had a CVA rifle.We snuck up on some deer once.Tried to time our shots together.Him shoot left one and me shoot right one.His cap just went off and that's all.Mine fired.That happened to us twice even though I told him to like you say squib fire dry his breech before hand.I squib fired this time to be sure too.
Shot the week stored load out at 50 yards at a 3" circle.Still shoots the same as in years past.

I'll clean er up a little and reload her.Dawn and water.Follow up with my oil of choice for years and years.

Only took 5 or 6 long underwear patches to clean er up.Felt smooth as silk stroking it.I've looked down the barrel with an LED pen light and it's all shiny smooth yet.I'll run 1 dry patch through after another to make sure it's dry.Shoot some caps through it and load it.

[BowEd]

It's a 35" .54 caliber Montana rifle barrel company barrel on a Johnathon Browning Mountain Hawken Rifle.15/16th flat,1 twist in 72" suited for round ball shooting.Rifling cut .010-.012 depth,8 land and grooves.I use .010 thick greased pillow tick patch with a .530 caliber ball.Plenty tight and loads easier than a .535 ball.
Always been a very accurate barrel.Dove tailed in buckhorn back sights and a thin silver blade front sight.Thinner than the crude thick steel front sight it came with.More accurate I think.

Nice cheek piece on reverse side.

[Eric Krewson]

I have several barrels with pitted bores, one is a Bill large barrel that will just about shoot through one hole at 50 yards, I was surprised to find the bore had a lot of pits in it when I looked with my new Teslong bore scope. This gun was made in the early 70s an has seen a ton of use plus it has had three owners so far.

[BowEd]

I guess it can be said then if you get a good one hang on to it.I imagine this barrel has had 100's if not a 1000 shots through it over the forty years I've owned it.Shot it a lot at quite a few rendezvous paper shoot matches,and deer hunting of course.

[JW_Halverson]

When I do the final sighting in of a gun I always do it with a fresh, clean barrel. If that means swabbing the barrel out multiple times between shots, then so be it. That way I do not have to shoot a fouling shot before loading and I can leave a barrel loaded until it is needed.

I loathe the idea of leaving a barrel dirty just because I put a load in it and did not fire it off during a day of hunting. I would either fire the round into the ground or pull the ball and dump the powder so I could clean it immediately when I got home.

Some folks have strong opinions on always sighting in with a dirty barrel, saying it means any follow-up shots are going to be as accurate as the first, but I have never had a gun that was so picky that a second or third shot was radically different than the first one from a clean barrel. Maybe I am lucky that way. Or maybe I am calculating my own luck by taking only "gimme" shots on game and rarely ever need a second shot.

As always, with muzzleloaders, your mileage may vary. Do what works for you, but for the good or the order and peaceful sleep NEVER STORE A GUN WITH A DIRTY BARREL!!!

[BowEd]

I and anybody shooting these type guns should always put away their barrel stored cleaned and lightly lubricarted.Checking on it a short week later after cleaning with a dry patch to see if any rust is pulled out.If so it needs to be addressed and cleaned for storage.It usually does'nt take much then.The G96 oil does that for me.
To my point though a fresh load can be stored in these guns from a cap dried chamber.The amount of powder in a cap is vey minimal.Old timers did it all the time.Do you think they had the time to load when a bear came into camp at night?I doubt it very much.Same way with a gun hanging on the wall in a cabin on the frontier in the early days when unforeseen things happen in the middle of the night.
When I shot for an afternoon at a match I would run a spit patch through in between shots.That way it was'nt so nasty dirty when I wanted to clean it.
It shot very well that way.Glad to see it's a tack driver yet.It was never a barrel to throw flyers.
With deer hunting it usually does'nt take more than 1 shot.Cleans up quick.
Looks like we'll get 5 to 6 inches of snow saturday.Should bode well following a blood trail if needed.

[BowEd]

Parts for such a gun have migrated to different companies and can't remember the exact dates these transfers were made.It originally was made in Morgan,Utah by the Browning Arms Co. from 1977 to 1980.Priced a bit higher than the TC guns being made then.One reason why I think they discontinued making them.IMO they are more traditional than the production line of the TC guns.All inventory of the JBMR was sold to Midway Arms,Inc. in Columbia Missouri in the early 1980's.Moved again and now parts are available from Deere Creek Products in Waldron,Indiana.I've called the number and it's current and in business.

I originally bought it in 1980 from a gun dealer camped at our local Cherrokee Ridgerunner club rendesvous.My first rendesvous.Usually getting 70 to 80 camps twice a year.Bought it at the spring event at the shooting range there where paper match shoots were held after selling 7 fur hats I made over the winter for $300.00.

I replaced as said earlier the original barrel [30" long with 1 twist in 66"]with a longer one [35" long with 1 twist in 72"] better suited yet for a patched round ball.Stocks were walnut with choices of steel or brass furniture.Excellent shooting rifle and my only big game rifle.It is rather heavy to tote all day long.Almost 9#'s.Should of maybe got a swamped tapered barrel to reduce weight,but they were more expensive too.
I had a friend do some scroll engraving on the lock as it comes with a plain lock.


 Mostly hand made accoutraments used in bag.Short starter,nipple wrench,deer rawhide ball pouch,powder measurer,tear drop capper,and greased strip of pillow tick rolled up coming out of a slot on the side of a patch box made of osage.Prior to using the patch box I usually just tied a strip of greased pillow ticking onto the shooting pouch strap and a strip of long underwear for an in between shot spit patch wipe of the barrel and that worked fine too.Used to have a patch knife on strap too then but just use my belt knife nowadays.

[Eric Krewson]

A footnote on that Knight that shot poorly out of the box with a clean barrel, we are talking a foot group at 50 yards. I called the company to complain because the company had a lifetime warranty on the gun. They said "yea, the first company we brought barrels from sent us substandard barrels so we changed companies for later models". I asked for a new barrel and they said "no, we don't replace barrels".

[BowEd]

Yes that's not acceptable.Before I came to live here there was a knight rifle company in a town next door to me 25 miles east.Centerville,Iowa.It's been closed for quite some time.Never did get a notion to try one of those in line guns.I already had my Hawken.
The Montana Barrel company would replace if not pleased back then by their "assurance of quality" standard.You could have it destructive tested too for $2.50.Suppose that was just a double ball load.I never did ask for it.This ad was in guns & ammo way back then.I hav'nt called their number in at least 35 years.Maybe their in business yet I don't know.OK I did try.The number has been disconnected.


The club I broke myself into buckskinning with were mostly all traditionalists.Fur trade era.1820 to 1840.A few earlier revalutionarys.No civil war.They had their own time period rendezvous and have a reenactment every year in a large oak lake park by the town I live by.Good place to refresh the nose of the smell of black powder and feel the ground reverberate after they shoot off those cannons.

Most thought a lot of Green River forge barrels if I remember right.Not sure that the same people in the Green River Rifle Forge did'nt make this barrel either.The Sharon Rifle Barrel company seems to be out of business too going bankrupt from the times.Same place as Montana Rifle Barrel company and I think the same people were working there.The Green Mountain Rifle company seems to be going yet at 4X the price but barrels are out of stock.Seems the Rice Barrel Making company located in North Caroilna has muzzle loading barrels for sale.

Thing was back then there was'nt any bows around at all.Nowadays they say there are a few bows being shot at rendezvous I guess.
Always a tomohawk and knife throw though.Candle shoots plus the range paper shoot matches.Looking at all the hand made trade goods & ideas others had for sale down traders' row.The big saturday night hog roasted in a pit feed.A lot of fun.

[BowEd]

I carried this gun with me to every rendezvous I went to.I started out camping in a Bakers' lean-to at rendezvous's.Then to a 8'by10' wall tent with a custom hand made stove.Then to a tipi or "lodge" many want to call them.I always put out a traders' blanket selling goods made over the winter.Met a lot of great people.Never took many pictures back then but did once here of the 2 tipis I owned and camped in.Unique shelters.Used to "froze foot rendezvous"/"hunt or starve rendezvous" back in them days at camps of less than 6 and at camps of over 700 at rendezvous's in many different states.You learn about all kinds of different types knots rendezvousing also.

Tipis of the western plains usually always have 15 poles for the set up & 2 poles for the flaps.I usually carried 18 poles [1 extra in case].These were for Sioux and Cheyenne type tipis.It all starts from a tri-pod with the rest of the poles layed into the crotches in the right sequence.

A tipi is normally set up facing the east.Away from the westerdly prevailing winds.This helps the smoke draft better from the tipi.The smoke flap poles can be turned pointing most any direction yet to help with the draft.In case of rain the smoke flap poles can be criss-crossed in front of the tipi closing the smoke flap hole all together.I've been through some very heavy intense rains with these and very little rain ever comes in.

There is tipi etiquette to be learned when living in these.Goods and wood pile have their places around perimeter along with sleeping areas.After entering walking to the left around the camp fire.At ceremonies inside the owner sits at the place of honor right directly behind the fire pit.Sod taken out for pit is the alter laying directly behind fire pit.Peace pipe used during ceremonies is handled and filled by owner handed to the heart side

with it never passing by the door and returned to owner.

The "books of buckskinning series" are very informative books learning about a tipi.Laubins' books too.With practice these structures can be put up and moved into in around an hour.The problem to solve by most is a way of hauling the poles,but with a little will & ingenuity that is easily solved too.You can expect nowadays to spend upwards of $1000.00 or more for such a shelter.Unless you live in an area where poles are available to you to harvest and you have the equipment/know how/and proper pattern to make your own.The final outcome of living in one is very rewarding and a special connection to the earth and it's surroundings.

Measurement size is the width across the base of lodge.
18' tipi [easily house 4 people comfortably] This was a Spring Valley Lodge tipi using 25 to 26 foot ling lodge pine poles smoothed and treated with linseed oil.A Cheyenne style type tipi.A 1 pole neighbor behind it.



14' tipi [easily house 2 people comfortably] & still have this one and all it's parts.Here's some pictures of it after it arrived to me.I usually do a dry run set up before I take it camping.I also wanted to fit up a 2/3rd's ozan for it too while it was set up.I use 22 to 23 foot long black spruce poles for this one smoothed and treated with linseed oil.I made that 2/3rd's ozan [false ceiling which helps for winter camping] for this tipi.It was referred to as a hunting camp type lodge.Made by a buckskinner I know by the name of "mud turtle".A siouw style type tipi.They called me the "hatman" because I made so many fur hats.




willow rod backrests for furniture/possible bag hanging I use bow hunting nowadays.A wooden kitchen box and other boxes storing food items and clothing and equipment were used too.I used liner poles on this one.Not totally necessary though.A liner rope along the top edge of inside liner can be used also.It's that inside liner to the ground and outside cover a few inches off the ground that makes such a lodge simple and versatile.It drafts the smoke out of the lodge.It can withstand very high winds also being cylindrical and being staked down every 2' around the outside cover edge and staked down from the apex of poles straight down inside the tipi as shown.



I have a friend that elk hunts out west every year in a tipi yet.Many know him and some call him bare foot Tom as he hunts bare footed.