1st brace

[Pat B]

Once I hit 6" to 8" on the long string and everything looks good I brace the bow to about 4".  This will tell me if the limbs are balanced and how the string lines up. If every thing is OK I exercise the limbs slightly while pulling the string a bit farther. If it feels heavy but is tracking and bending well I reduce weight by anywhere from 10 to 25 scrapes per limb with a scraper...exercise more and pull a bit farther. This is the time to correct any balance, twist or misalignment problems before you take too much weight off.
  Watching Gary Davis work at the Classic with a tiller stick(look out Jawge ) to just below brace height made since.  Beyond that it is a tiller tree. By not going past brace with the tiller stick you don't unnecessarily stress the wood.    Pat

[George Tsoukalas]

Pat- Gary Davis, you and Tom Sawyer are not the Jawge of 18 years ago snapping bows in half because they were too heavy to string.  You and they have developed a feel for knowing when the bow is light enough to be strung safely. Nothing wrong with that.Most of what I do in bow building is by feel. I have  no problem with using  a t stick at that point thought I don't need it.   Remember, also,  not everyone has osage, which is pretty tough,  growing in their back yard. Beats me why their is so much resistance to understanding the importance of reducing a stave sufficiently in weight to be strung safely.  In my younger days, I used to have a big sign in my classroom called "The Wall". When the kids were being particularly dense and stubborn I'd go to "The Wall" and start talking to the sign. They'd ask what I was doing, of course. I'd say that I was talking to "The Wall" and when I am talking to them I might as well be. Pretty funny ha?  I may just put one of those signs on my computer. Jawge

[Pat B]

George, I agree with you about the "feel" thing. I use feel and sound for testing for m/c and strength and from experience, I can be pretty close to where I want to be with both. That wasn't the case years ago. It took me years and lots of wood to be able to(or at least realize what I was doing) make a successful bow.  The sooner someone realizes that patience is one of the most important aspect of wood bow building, the sooner they will be successful.   Pat

[George Tsoukalas]

Pat, I agree. Patience is important. Jawge

[shamus]

What a good topic. Good thing I was reading the old archives.

I think I might be doing what Jawge is doing. When I get the limbs bending evenly, I brace the bow at “zero” brace height. I think this is Jawge’s “long string” method? From there I check the weight, never stressing the bow over my target weight. I brace the bow when I can do without strain….when it feels right. Basically, it’s the Jim Hamm technique from that point out.

We also We also agree on not hitting full target  weight until around 22 inches. I often don't hit it until 24 or 25 inches and shoot the bow in for the final 2 inches. Gives me sanding room. Let's give credit to Jim Fetrow.  He is a proponent of that method.

Interesting thought, Jawge, you point out that you don’t hit your weight until about 22”. That’s probably a good idea. Why stress the bow early? I remember Jim. He was a Guru and a half.

[Postman]

Great thread - have an osage stave i'm starting to floor tiller, thanks for everyone's input.I think I now know why my red oak board bow took so much set, (gotta little overzealous)and my hickory bow blew up on me. Jawge  - have 20 kids coming into class now - definitely gonna talk to the wall at the first oppurtunity!
Postman

[Gordon]

I pretty much use Jawge's method, i.e. when the tips are moving about 10" at target weight it's time for the short string. That said, I try really hard for an even tiller before I brace it the first time. And that's easier said than done because the long string doesn't reveal flaws as readily as the short string. So I pay a lot of attention to limb thickness and taper during this phase and the long string is primarly used to excercise the bow between wood removal sessions. If I do my job well, the first brace happens without a hitch and all that is needed are some minor adjustments to the tiller and a fair amount of wood removal to hit my target weight.

[Badger]

     Patience is probably the most important asset a good bowyer has.  Experience is something we can only gain by making bows and I have to admit it sure makes life easier. Sometimes when trying to explain something in the right terms to someone whi is just starting out it can be difficult because we don't even realize ourselves sometimes how much we are actually doing by experience. If I am working on a bow of a familiar style length and draw weight I can pretty much just floor tiller the bow to first brace and be within a few inches of being done. I know quite a few guys who do the same thing. We do this for a few years and then the topic comes up when to go to the short string or first brace. Now we have to try and decipher methods that we can safely relay to a newcomer so he doesn't break his bow. Several years ago I used to keep a finsihed bow next to my tiller tree as a model, I could look at it and feel it, when my bow in progress felt just a bit stronger i knew I was close. This is where I have a lot of respect for guys like Jawge who have spent a life time teaching. A good teacher has to be able to ignore his own experience and put himself in the place of someone he is teaching. The whole process of both making bows and passing it on is both challenging and rewarding. Steve

[Justin Snyder]

I thought I was the only one who kept a finished bow handy while tillering.    It didn't take me long to decide that making one style of bow was not as fun as a new style every time. I guess that is why I appreciate people who can build a longbow or recurve or R/D, an ELB or ALB along with almost any other style or profile.  Its also why I appreciate Steves scientific/mathematic approach to fine tunning and getting the most from our bows. It is pushing our own tallent that makes average into good and good into great. There is a big difference when switching styles. Patience is certainly a constant in all bow making.  Justin

[jcougar]

Most of the time Iuse a long string that hangs about 8" below the bow when it is on the tiller tree.  When the bow reaches the desired weight at the intended draw length(using the long string), I then brace it about an inch or two lower than finished brace height.

[Pappy]

I pretty much do it the way Lennie dose it,but most of my bows are 60 to 64.I have found on 68 to 72 it is real easy for me to miss weight,I don't get it on  the short string to early I get it on to late
and not enough room left for the final tiller.When I use the long string it is just long enough to go
n-n and bring to down to about 8 inches of tip movement before short bracing.There again
most of my bow are close to the same length and most times the same kind of wood,longer
heavy bows of different wood types I am sure would be a problem for me.
   Pappy

[Justin Snyder]

I finally marked the brace height on my tillering tree. There is a line running across the back board that lets me know that the tips are past brace height.  I usually go about 4 inches past the line with a long string then brace it. Justin

[radius]

i used to use a long string, but same old same old:  come in too light.

Then i found adb's how to on holmegaards, and his def'n of a long string really worked for me: just long enough, like a brace height of 0 inches.  To find true tiller and true weight, i like to keep bracing the thing higher and higher as i go until i reach about 7".  By the time I can brace it 7", i'm practically there.  Weight and tiller are true...and i'm a happy camper. 

As soon as I can brace it to 2", i do so.  As soon as I can get it to 3, i'm at 3.  I don't have a formula yet, but I have found that the bows work better for me if I tiller this way.

[Badger]

One real simle way to never come in underweight is to always pull the bow to full draw weight, even when it is only bending about 2". When you have a long string on the bow if the string is hanging down 1" loose or 10" loose or braced at normal brace height it will read pretty close to the same poundage when you pull the string down to an inch marker on your tiller tree. The problem with long string tillering is it tends to bend more near the handle and when you brace the bow it will bend more in the outer limbs so you have to allow for this. Steve

[1/2primitive]

First brace is always uncomfortable for me, along with the early short sting tillering. After I get to the point where I can pull it a bit, it goes a bit smoother.
   Sean