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Offline Woodely

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Backing
« on: May 11, 2019, 07:28:02 pm »
Is sinew really that much weaker than say FG or other synthetic materials.  Sinew is very strong stuff you would think that in some cases it would over power the belly...……… No..!
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Offline bassman

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Re: Backing
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2019, 05:36:33 am »
I have sinew backed Osage ,Black locust, Hickory,Elm,American Hornbeam,Walnut,and have never had that problem.As Ed Scott said it is magical stuff, and with hide glue makes for a very trust worthy, and makes for a  fast ,durable, smooth shooting  bow.JMO
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Offline Marc St Louis

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Re: Backing
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2019, 06:03:50 am »
If the wood being backed is low on elasticity then sinew can overpower it and cause chrysals.  I've had 2 sinew backed bows chrysal on me.  One was a BC recurve and the other was an RD Elm, this Elm was poor in compression
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Offline Woodely

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Re: Backing
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2019, 09:46:46 am »
Quote from: bassman on May 12, 2019, 05:36:33 am
I have sinew backed Osage ,Black locust, Hickory,Elm,American Hornbeam,Walnut,and have never had that problem.As Ed Scott said it is magical stuff, and with hide glue makes for a very trust worthy, and makes for a  fast ,durable, smooth shooting  bow.JMO
Hide glue is kind of on the weak side is it not compared to TB, smooth -on, plastic resin and other notable glues.   You can have the greatest backing on a bow but if the glue is sub standard what good does it do. 
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Offline SLIMBOB

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Re: Backing
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2019, 09:55:32 am »
The wood will fail before a GOOD hide glue joint.
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Offline Pat B

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Re: Backing
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2019, 10:20:14 am »
You can pull a piece of glass out of a pane with a drop of hide glue. Look up hide glue glass etching.
Also Sinew is elastic unlike FG so the chance of it overpowering a bow probably less likely.
 A few years back a few commercial FG bow builders tried glass backings on selfbows but soon gave up the idea. Must have been a good reason for that.
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Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Backing
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2019, 06:34:38 am »
I am pretty sure Ed Scott put his sinew on with titebond, his complete video in on youtube.
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Offline PatM

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Re: Backing
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2019, 10:10:35 am »
Quote from: Woodely on May 12, 2019, 09:46:46 am
Quote from: bassman on May 12, 2019, 05:36:33 am
I have sinew backed Osage ,Black locust, Hickory,Elm,American Hornbeam,Walnut,and have never had that problem.As Ed Scott said it is magical stuff, and with hide glue makes for a very trust worthy, and makes for a  fast ,durable, smooth shooting  bow.JMO
Hide glue is kind of on the weak side is it not compared to TB, smooth -on, plastic resin and other notable glues.   You can have the greatest backing on a bow but if the glue is sub standard what good does it do.

 You have determined that hide glue is not a good glue for backing?
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Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: Backing
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2019, 10:28:50 am »
Hide glue and sinew go together very well, I have never used anything else for a sinew backed bow, I used hide glue and knox and found no difference. I used TB if I was doing a wrap over a cracked place just because it was what I had close at hand, it worked OK.
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Offline bassman

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Re: Backing
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2019, 05:09:57 am »
Ed scott did use tb2 and 3 , but always talked about sinew as magical stuff. He didn,t like the mess hide glue made.He built a lot of pre stress in his bows so for him it didn't matter.I like hide glue best. JMO.
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Offline Dances with squirrels

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Re: Backing
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2019, 06:58:43 am »
I too like hide glue best with sinew and rawhide backings. Good hide glue crystals. Not that liquid bottled stuff.
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Offline Woodely

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Re: Backing
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2019, 08:02:26 am »
Quote from: PatM on May 13, 2019, 10:10:35 am
Quote from: Woodely on May 12, 2019, 09:46:46 am
Quote from: bassman on May 12, 2019, 05:36:33 am
I have sinew backed Osage ,Black locust, Hickory,Elm,American Hornbeam,Walnut,and have never had that problem.As Ed Scott said it is magical stuff, and with hide glue makes for a very trust worthy, and makes for a  fast ,durable, smooth shooting  bow.JMO
Hide glue is kind of on the weak side is it not compared to TB, smooth -on, plastic resin and other notable glues.   You can have the greatest backing on a bow but if the glue is sub standard what good does it do.

 You have determined that hide glue is not a good glue for backing?


"Hide glue is kind of on the weak side is it not compared to TB, smooth"   I was only assuming as reading past posts about using the glue that it comes apart for thing when it gets wet, so reliability is not its strong point Correct..?   Seriously is there a heads on test compared to other glues.  No lack of Assumptions on this Site...:)
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 08:10:29 am by Woodely »
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Offline Pat B

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Re: Backing
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2019, 08:31:13 am »
Like most glues it depends on it's application. I use it almost exclusively on sinew, rawhide and snake skin backings being they are all made of the same thing. I've not used it with wood/wood application so I can't answer to that. I'd say hide glue is not good at gap filing but neither are TB glues. For those applications I'd use Urac(now Unibond), Weldwood plastic resin or others known for gap filing properties. I've used all the TB glues for wood to wood backings without failures and on just about every bow woods we commonly use.
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Offline bradsmith2010

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Re: Backing
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2019, 10:26:44 am »
I have read Hide glue is one of the strongest,,but right it is not water resistant as some modern glues ,,,, but its strength is in the top,, I think there is a chart in volume one, I will try to find it,
hide glue and knox gelatin,, were two of the strongest glues tested by tim baker in volume one,, as strong as yellow glue,
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 10:33:45 am by bradsmith2010 »
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Offline Woodely

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Re: Backing
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2019, 11:58:09 am »
Thanx good to know about the Tim baker volume one blurb. 
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