Sinew over linen

[hoosierf]

So I recently built a short bow with Sinew in PVA over linen. Prior experience with sinew and PVA yields about half the benefit you see with hide glue but good back protection as you’d expect. Now the bow I built over linen with PVA yielded equal results. Is that little bit of leverage gained the difference?  I think it might be. They say Ed Scott used PVA and sinew and it worked well but I think of his highly stressed short bows. Maybe that’s the key to PVA sinew - it needs more stress since the PVA doesn’t  shrink like hide glue.

[bradsmith2010]

What is pva

[Pat B]

TB glues.
 I've only used hide glue with sinew except I did seal a sinew bow with TBIII once. If I'm gonna take the time to sinew back a bow I'll use hide glue. For other backings like linen, silk, etc. I have used TBIII. I have no experience to compare the 2 different glues with sinew.

[maitus]

Would You make hornbow with PVA? ... Why ?

[hoosierf]

My only attempt at a horn bow failed so I don’t know. My tips broke off because I over stressed the wood with antler syahs made from a whitetail spike buck.

[hoosierf]

TB glues.
 I've only used hide glue with sinew except I did seal a sinew bow with TBIII once. If I'm gonna take the time to sinew back a bow I'll use hide glue. For other backings like linen, silk, etc. I have used TBIII. I have no experience to compare the 2 different glues with sinew.

I know I’m bucking tradition and mostly I do use hide glue.  I’m not a millennial by any stretch but I would like to have an effective way to speed the curing time while still getting the sweet benefits of sinew backing.

[bradsmith2010]

depending on how thick you use it,, curing or drying time can vary,,
people have been putting sinew on with titebond for 20 years at least,,
not sure there is much benefit in curing time,,or performance,,
maybe it is a bit easier,,and more water proof, I have not done one,, only read about it,,
I have shot sinew backed bows after two weeks curing,, with positive results,,
sometimes they gain a bit of weight,,after that,,
Laubin says he did the same in his book,, its a good read,,
he actually thinks there are some advantages to the short cure time,, 
shooting your titebond bow through a chrono,, would give you some info on how effecient it is,,or isnt,,

[PatM]

TB glues.
 I've only used hide glue with sinew except I did seal a sinew bow with TBIII once. If I'm gonna take the time to sinew back a bow I'll use hide glue. For other backings like linen, silk, etc. I have used TBIII. I have no experience to compare the 2 different glues with sinew.

I know I’m bucking tradition and mostly I do use hide glue.  I’m not a millennial by any stretch but I would like to have an effective way to speed the curing time while still getting the sweet benefits of sinew backing.

 It takes about two weeks for a sinew backed bow to be shootable.  How much of a hurry are you in?

[hoosierf]

I’ve generally waited 45-60 days and have read reports that longer is better. Lately I’ve exposed the sinew to the sun and when it stops getting tacky after sitting out for a few hours I call it good and seal it.  That takes a couple more days. Three depending on the temp.

[bradsmith2010]

what ever you have read, if you are in a hurry,, a shorter cure time will work,,
a longer cure time may be better,,,or a little more stable,, but I have not experienced much difference in bow performance,,or durablilty,,
 
I am not in a hurry when I make one,, I just cant wait to shoot it,,

[bassman]

I have made them with Tb3, and hide glue.Both will work, but I prefer hide glue.I won,t shoot them for at least a couple of months, and some will gain poundage as they age.

[Mesophilic]

I'm curious if anyone has a link or source to the issue of TB not performimg on par with hide glue.

I know it's not scientific, and I didn't take pics, but i did my own experiment a while back to see if sinew would pull a reflex with TB.  I took two strips of pine, 1/2 inch wide 1/8 inch thick and 24 inches long.  On one piece I glued sinew with hide glue and the other with TB.  Tried my best to use the same amount of sinew over the whole length.  They both pulled the same amount of reflex as the sinew dried. 

I suppose its possible on this micro size that maybe one doesn't get the same results scaled up to a real bow with several courses  of sinew.

I've also done a similar experiment where I soaked the sinew in hide glue, wrung out the excess and laid it on wood that was sized with TB3.  In my experiment it bonded well, and was harder to pull off of the wood than the control sample sized with just hide glue.  Both also pulled a reflex as they dried.

I should document these things but it's really for my own curiosity.

[bradsmith2010]

That seems reasonable,,,make two bows and see which one shoots the best,,,or just shoot one with titebond through a chrono,..see how it compares ,...170 to 180 would be good,, I just thinking that the titebond may be heavier than the hide glue, but I am just guessing,,