stave / bow design help

[HorseApples]

Hey all,

This is my third attempt at making bow.  I posted pictures of my last one which and you all gave me some great advice. I shelved that one for now, and I know one day I will come back to it. 
For now I decided I would take some your advice,  try a simpler design,  with a straighter stave and get to shooting in shorter order.

Well, this stave I bought for this one was straight enough... But has a BIG knot right where the fades would be, and another inconveniently  placed knot where the other fade would be.

So I have given myself another challenging stave for a beginner. But after chasing a ring on this one I am determined to see it turn into something.

Please help me get unstuck with this stick!  What would you do with a stave like this one?

The length of the stave is 54.5".  At that length the middle of the bow would be where you see the caliper in the pic.
For the most part it is about 2&3/4" wide. At its widest around the big knot its 3&1/8 wide.
My desire was to have a bow with a bendy handle, but if that's not what the stave desires, I defer to the stave.

Any help will be much appreciated.
      

[HorseApples]

Here is another picture of the problem area.

(I am also curious to know if that big knot area looks good. The grain was a mass of confusion and hard to tell if I violated the growth ring. I can go down one more ring if needed. I am guessing I need to clean some of the darker more "plastic-like" wood out of the knot hole)

[Eric Garza]

Thinking back to my own beginnings, I'd suggest sitting the staves aside (unless you can get a primo stave with no knots, twist or other aberrations to mess things up) and make your first few bows from boards. You can find red oak or hard maple boards at local hardware stores, like Lowe's or Home Depot. You might have a hardwood dealer close to home who can sell you hickory too. The cost per attempt will go way down, the wood will be cleaner, and you're more likely to enjoy success and to pick up useful wood working skills.

My 2 cents.

[Pat B]

Will you post a pic of the handle area from the belly?
 Too bad the stave is so short. I'd place the handle right in the middle, depending on what the handle area belly looks like. You will probably have a stiff handle bow with this stave.
I agree with Eric 100%!   Also read George's website, especially about picking and building a board bow.

[HorseApples]

Thanks guys. I will research making a board bow. What is George's website?

True to what my dad always told me (as he would shake his head in disbelief), I only seem to be able learn the hard way, so I will probably forge ahead with this one too. Hahah  I suppose I will learn something at the very least!  My first two attempts held a lot of lessons. My second one was leaps and bounds better than my first and was shooting before I got carried away with the design. Here is hoping this one will be exponentially better than the 2nd (and OI am sure still leave plenty of room for improvement)

Here is a pic of the back of the bow in the problem area. (middle of the stave is at the pencil mark)  If a stiff handle is needed, but its just too short for that, maybe I'll make this into a kid's bow with a stiff handle?  Thin the limbs but leave them kind of wide to reduce set?

[High-Desert]

That stave there will make one cool bow, id save that one until you have a little more experience. The good thing about boards besides being cheap, is that you will learn a lot. I think board bows are harder to make than stave bows, only because you can literally spend hours looking for a good board, which is very good practice for getting good at wood selection. I'd recommend a hickory board if it's available. If you plan on taking this up as a serious hobby, failing is the best way to learn. To this day, I learn very little from the bows that end up being easy to make.

[DC]

Could you thin it down to this line? (Not this shakey) That would still leave you about 2" in wide and get rid of one knot. The other knot would sit about the heel of your hand. I haven't worked much Osage so i don't know about a bendy handle.

[Morgan]

If it were mine, I’d do as dc suggests. In regards to board bows, i don’t like them. Nothing against the bows they make, but my personal success rate went way up when I started using clean staves. The only boards available locally for me is red oak and I’m not a fan. Everyone has preferences, but, I would have broken fewer bows if I had focused of clean staves from the beginning.

[Pat B]

When learning to build a bow performance is the last thing to strive for. Without proper tillering performance is not achievable. For a beginner learning on a red oak board or other locally available, inexpensive lumber is the way to go. Save these tricky staves for when you have more experience. By tricky I mean short, knotty and somewhat snaky stave.
 I'd also do as DC suggested. That's why I asked for the belly pic.
Here is a link to Georges site. It is stickied on the How To page.   http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,15690.0.html

[Morgan]

Pat, I wasn’t trying to be argumentative with what I said about board bows. I tried that route at first and broke several pieces of wood. I can read grain well and sorted through tons of 1x lumber at the local lumber yard. My distaste for the  redoak boards I’ve used has nothing to do with performance. What I’ve got my hands on seemed very brittle. One bow I finished broke an inch down from the top string nock. Clean break straight through as if it was sheared off. This area wasn’t bending, no knots or wavering grain... I can’t account for why it broke there. That said, my first shooter is a red oak board bow.
 I agree, leave the knotty, short, snakey, and lumpy staves alone till you have a good deal more experience.
Where do you live horseapples?

[Pat B]

I didn't mean to step on your toes. I was just trying to make a point about beginners using cheap board bows to learn on.
Sorry if I offended you.

[Badger]

    I would go a head and work on the stave, just do your best and turn the results over to fate. As for the knot, I don't think it will be compromised at the knot, the wood has swirled around it, just follow the grain around the knot and it will be wider there, always follow the grain. At 54" I think I might limit it to a 24" draw, keep the bow about 2" wide till mid limb and maybe use some dry heat to slightly reflex the limbs before starting. It won't be the end of the world if the bow doesn't work out and it will certainly be a lot of fun and challenging working on it. Just take your time.

[Morgan]

I didn't mean to step on your toes. I was just trying to make a point about beginners using cheap board bows to learn on.
Sorry if I offended you.

Brother, you weren’t stepping on my toes or offending me at all! Through reading all your posts on here, I have a great deal of respect for what you say.  There are some folks that believe the only proper way to build a bow is from a stave, my post was just clarification that I’m not in that camp, I’ve just had poor luck with boards and good luck with staves. If I didn’t have access to good bow staves, I’d still be trying to make bows with boards.

[Badger]

  I have to buy all my staves and I can't afford more than about 2 a month so I build a lot of laminated bows from boards and some plain board bows. As long as I am building a bow I am a happy camper.

[dave young]

Badger, do you have a favorite place to get your staves from? I have only done board bows and would like to try a stave at some point.