Sinew Glue and processing

[bubbles]

I did a search and couldn't find much on the topic, I also checked out TBB vol 1 and couldn't find exactly what I was looking for,  so if there is a thread or a tutorial, please direct me, otherwise:

I'm doing my first sinew jobby.  I went to the asian supermarket and picked up some raw beef tendon, I got three packs which is 6 tendons.
I'm starting with the glue, so I can have practice processing the tendons before I do the ones that need to be dried, so....
Question 1:  Yeild: How much glue can I expect to get from 2 full beef tendons? (I threw in the stuff surrounding the tendons as well? Enough to sinew 1 bow?  Or should I use all 6 tendons and make one big batch of glue? I have 2 in the pot right now, so should I add more?
 
Question 2: TBB recommends cooking at 170F for 24 hours - or if you wanna do a quick batch full boil for 3 hours  - What are people opinions and experiences on this? Is there a good middle ground between 24 hours or 3 hours?  Will the quick batch of sinew glue be adequately strong and flexible?

Question 3: (See pics) Is this what the tendon should look like after processing from the package?  Basically is that what I should be drying and pounding? (The right side of the 2nd pic) There seem to be little tendons everywhere, but what i picked out seems to be the most substantial and seemed to look like what i've seen in dried form.

Thanks, 
Mike.
 

[osage outlaw]

Here is a post of my first attempt at sinew glue.  i got a lot of help along the way


http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,30740.0.html

[Ink]

Holy mother of sinew. Need to check out my local Asian market.

[bubbles]

Thanks Osage!  I searched Sinew glue and that thread didn't come up.  That helps a lot. Now who would go and say you're worthless? 


As the first  sinews were cooking, I went to cut them up smaller, and noticed there were thick sheaths around them.  I processed the rest of them and got this (see pic)

There is tons of little sinews and other tendons in the mass that surrounded the actual sinews I was after, so i'm cooking them in the pot instead of the rest of my sinews, hopefully ending up with something similar to the "deer knee joints and hooves glue" thread.     

[richardzane]

never tried making glue from fresh tendons!
my own experience is if you BOIL it or overcook, the glue it turns dark hard and brittle when it drys
also it stinks!  i'd be reluctant to put boiled hide glue on a bow back.
since i use the wood stove in the house i just place a larger pot of water on the stove, and a smaller pot containing snips of
braintanned deerhide edges and sinew scraps inside with water , as a kind of double boiler.
I place a couple clay pottery sherds between the pots so its not setting right on the bottom. it may take a couple days.
I just put it in the fridge or outside where varmits can't get it at night.

after it thickens up a bit pour it through a sieve and let it jell, eventually its great stuff.
I've always dried my sinew out , pound it out for the good lengths and stuff the short pieces in a jar for future glue.

[bubbles]

Forgot the pic....

  Probably would have been better if I dried it and pounded it out, but I just cut up the raw tendon a bit and threw it in the pot.  We'll see what happens.
It's sitting right now at 160F.  Doesn't look like much, not even really brown yet.  Doesn't smell bad either.  Just a light yellow and some fat on the surface.  I'll leave it overnight like OO did in his thread and see what I get in the morning.

[osage outlaw]

Make sure all the water doesn't steam off during the night.  I would imagine burnt sinew would have a unique smell.

[RyanR]

What do they sell the tendons for? What do they do with them?

[bubbles]

Vietnamese Phô sometimes has beef tendon in it. Apparently it can be quite delicious.

[Ink]

Ryan - the package in the first picture says $4.91, that's cheap as hell.

[bubbles]

And here is the finished glue. 

I have yet to test it out, but it seems to be glue-y.  I gelled quite nicely.   

While I was awake, I was cooking it around 175.  Overnight, I put the lid on and It crept up to 190/200.  Hopefully that doesn't affect the glue strength.  The next day the tendons I put in were definately all mushy and tender.  I could cut through them with just tongs.  I can see now how they could be used in soup. 
Either way, I need to reduce it down still, but I'll do some glueing on some scrap and see how well this stuff works. 

[PatM]

Quite a few dishes are based on a gelatin of some sort.

[bubbles]

Yes, but its the actual tendon that they are eating. I was just surprised a full tendon can become soo tender.

[IndianGuy]

A three hour boil is good but you have to keep adding water, you need to chop up your sinew into small pieces, when you boil it keep it on a low boil, mash all the excess liquid through the sinew pieces through a grease screen when finished. I have made and used boild hide glue for over 20 years and it works great, it will be less tacky than commerical grade liquid or even granual hide glue, it will make like a jello consistancy and if not put in the freezer it will mold over time, if you spread it thin enough in the pan it will harden. You just put in a double boiler on low heat with water to re-constitute. Homemade glue is much better than commerical grade. It will seem very watery when you use it but will dry hard and faster than commerical grades, The tight bond liquid hide glue has a retardant in it that keeps it from drying to fast. You can take the glue you made and after only 5-7 days with one layer of sinew backing brace your bow as long as it was left to dry in a warm area of the house. Oh you can also add pieces of rawhide to your mixture if you have it, doesnt matter if its elk, deer, beef, moose..etc.. but it's not nesscary.
 This statement is from experience and over 200 sinew backed bows not taken from internet forums or books, just trial and error over almost 3 decades of making sinew backed bows!
good luck!
Eric