Hornbeam vs Hophornbeam?

[Dclarke]

How different are these two types of wood?
I have found some hornbeam trees (still looking for Hophornbeam)
Do they both make good bows or is one better than the other?

Also has anyone had good success with yellow birch?
I have plenty of that available to me to harvest.

Please your thoughts, opinions, recommendations

[George Tsoukalas]

Hophornbeam is the better of those. Tough wood. Not as spongy for moisture as hickory. Hornbeam is ok. Wear glasses when sanding as it can cause eye cancer. Jawge

[blackhawk]

I have made bows from both,and both are strong,tough,and very elastic for whitewood. Eastern hophornbeam is better due to it being easier to work with because of the gnarly growing tendicies and characteristics of american hornbeam(which we call musclewood).

But both will make a good bow,and both respond really well to heat treating and takes lil set from the tempering

[Dclarke]

Thank you for your replies
It is greatly appreciated

Do you have any thoughts on yellow birch? 
I am trying to find out about the woods I have that are native and I have actually seen in the wild.
Went by a house with some shag bark hickory in the front yard.... 
thought I might stop by and ask if I could search their woods too
Thanks in advance

[Bert]

I've been on a quest for good bow woods that grow natively here in central Europe and feel like northern america houses alot of great bow woods ..
(osage,hickory,..)

I did stumble on a a tree they call 'charme' around the cabin, there's plenty of it .. in my language (flemish) its called 'haagbeuk'.
It translates to latin as 'Carpinus'

the north-american version is called 'Carpinus caroliniana', wich translates to 'American hornbeam' .. 

So, in addition to this thread, on a scale from 1 to 10 (10 beeing awesome) how good does this wood score ?
Any techniques i should consider (like keep the limbs wide) ?

  I'm shocked to hear the sawdust can cause eye-cancer !! (i've been exposed alot allready  )

[PEARL DRUMS]

Looks like beech alright. Never used any, but my guess would be a 5 or 6 outta 10 on a the good bow wood scale.

[PatM]

Bert, you must be losing your mind. Years ago you made a bow out of European hornbeam and posted pics of the trees. That tree you just showed looks more like actual Beech.

[DarkSoul]

Bert, you have to be careful with those "beuk" and "haagbeuk". The first one is a species of Fagus, while the second one is a Carpinus indeed. The two trees can look REALLY similar though, and they are often confused in our region. In winter, without leaves, they are sometimes nearly impossible to keep apart. The tree you've pictures is clearly not a species of beech (Fagus). It's probably indeed European hornbeam ("haagbeuk" or Carpinus betulus).
Not the best bowwood around, but certainly a good bowwood in our region. It's difficult to find a straight piece though, as it like to grow twisted and with many branches low on the trunk. Certainly a 7 out of ten nevertheless, in contrast to beech ("beuk") which I would rate a 5.

Greetings from a Dutchman

Oh, by the way, don't forget that hazel and ash that grows so abundantly in the Ardennes...

[Bert]

so it IS right what they say about the sawdust ...
it's aaaaaaAAaaaallllll in the sawdust my friend 

[Bert]

Hey DarkSoul !
What you are referring to is the 'hazelaar' & 'esdoorn' respectively ?
Have you got any personal expirience with any of the 2 ?
I'd really could do with a comparison between those ..
Got mighty lots of ye ol'e oak around here as well.
Bert

[DarkSoul]

Hazel=hazelaar=Corylus avellana
Ash=essen=Fraxinus excelsior
Maple=esdoorn=Acer sp.

I've used ash myself, but no hazel or maple (yet). Our European species of maple is not as good as most American species of maple, although our European species of ash is at least as good, probably better, than the American species of ash. Hazel is typically European and is very widespread and abundant here throughout the continent. Easy to work with, takes a lot of abuse and is d*rn difficult to break. But it likes to take set and not an especially good performer. However, if you heattreat the belly, this lousy hazel will turn into a real rocket launcher!
I'm not too fond of European oak...it often disappoints, so it seems. Some oak is really good, while some is really bad. I'm sure it can make nice bows, but it doesn't seem very reliable.

There's plenty of bowwood in Central Europe...just not those species you hear about on the forums, because we don't have mulberry, osage and hickory. Instead, look for yew ("taxus") or "lijsterbes" (Sorbus aucuparia) or elm ("iep").

[Bert]

I'm sorry to keep on 'reviving' this old thread, but i prefer this instead of starting a new one.

DarkSoul ? I followed up on your advice on Central European bowwoods and today i went out looking for Ash around the cabin (Ardennes)


On my scouting in the woods I stumbled across the following (alot, nearly exclusivly) :

Oak (of wich my father in law has this crazy story about an old lumberjack that once told him that the Oak growing in this direct region is like no other... its supposed to be superior- maybe just an old-mans-tale ? )

Beech alot of fair staves slumbering in great straight trees. (but then again, its 'just' beech (beuk) right ? )

Birch altough far from dominant, its around..


But still ..I was looking for Ash and whilst looking for that perticular ash leave-pattern i kept finding trees with these types of leaves :


I learned that this is the "lijsterbes" you spoke of ? (rowan berry, mountain ash -berry) If this is a decent European bowwood then i'm estatic cos these around here look like christmas came early this year !

[dragonman]

people have made working bows out of all those woods.. just try the tree that you can find the best stave from...then you'll find out how good they are and may be pleasantly suprised

[DarkSoul]

Look for ash in the valleys, not up the hills. Near creeks, often on the shadow side of a hill. It may be rare in your region, I don't know, but I've seen it in the Ardennes several times. Even enormous trees of over 60 cm diameter

Beech, birch, oak and rowan ("lijsterbes")....they all make bows. It doesn't rank very high on my personal list of bowwoods, to be honest, but all species certainly will work. I would stay away from the beech and birch, but the others are quite good. I haven't worked with rowan/mountain ash (yet), but I think it's somewhat comparable to hazel in many aspects. It's not a miracle bowwood, but it's certainly decent!