thanks for the advice, i am actually going to b e getting some coal to try, but i figured out what was causing one problem i was having with my sockets this weekend. you see this is the hottest i have gotten my forge to and i am not used to having the metal work that easy, so i think i over worked it a bit, but the did end up working so no complaint here, just not as clean of sockets as i would like.
and thanks for the link, that is a different way of forming the sockets, what i usually do is flatten it out till it is pretty thin, then i put it over a slot to start the bend and finish bending the edges over and rolling it, cleaning it up on a spike i have
thanks
noel