Chasing a ring....need a little help and advice.....

[Stingray45]

I have a small osage stave I got for pretty cheap. 55" tip to tip, not very much wood, one end is about one inch thick and the other end is about 1.25" thick. I'm having some trouble chasing the ring (this is my first attempt at chasing a ring). I'm finding it hard to tell when I've gotten the whole way through one ring and into the next and I'm afraid I have/will violate the next ring. I was trying to get through one ring and I thought I knew when I had finish one ring because there was like a milky looking layer that was kind of crunch sounding. I started at the ends and was working that way because I wasnt able to scrape away in the middle of the bow and know which ring I was on. Any help would be appreciated! Also if the ring has been violated, would backing with rawhide help? Or will it still eventually become a problem?

[Pat B]

What is your draw length and what draw weight are you shooting for?   55" is pretty short for a beginner to work with.  You should work towards a bendy handle bow and George's site has lots of info about this. Check it out!
  I generally start about 6" from the closest end and work back toward myself with the draw knife. Then move up 6 more inches and work back toward myself and so on until the complete back is clean. If you have knots to deal with leave an island of the previous ring around it until you are done chasing the complete back ring. You will have to take your time working around these knots when you can concentrate on them completely. The crunchy layer is the early wood between the workable rings of late wood. You should be able to feel and hear the differences between these rings as you work down to a back ring. Don't tale large chunks or slivers off the back at any one time. This will lead to trouble.   If you do violate the back ring and don't have enough thickness to chase the next ring rawhide will help to prevent splinters but it is not a short cut. Your best option is to go down to the next ring.
  With your stave at 55" you want everything working together as to not over stress any one portion if the stave.

[George Tsoukalas]

Thanks, Pat. There is a section in my site on ring chasing. If I miss a ring I start over. No violations allowed. Yes, backing it with rawhide would help but ring violations just don't sit well with me. I used to use a drawknife but a different kind of one. I'll let you check it out. I favor the Swedish push knife and shavehooks for that task. Jawge
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/osage.html

[Stingray45]

Thanks guys. I've read over this section of your site Jawge. I've seen some build alongs and stuff too but its difficult to get a really good view of what I'm looking for on here. I'll give it another shot and see how it goes tonight. I was planing on going with a bendy handle to help spread out the stress to more working areas.

[Pat B]

When you are working on chasing the ring put the stave between you and a good light source. Sun light is best but incandescent is good too. This will make the early wood jump out visually to help you distinguish between one ring and the next. Fluorescent lighting doesn't work as well.   You can hear and feel the early wood when you get to it with a draw knife. Use all your senses. 

[Stingray45]

I'll give that a try. I've been working on it outside, but my backyard is somewhat shady so maybe not the best light. I'll try to set up a worklight overhead to see if that helps.

[JW_Halverson]

Overhead light is good, but sometimes it helps to have the light shining from the side or directly in front of you pointing downward at the stave at an angle.  Heck, I have even shined a flashlight from every angle on a spot that confustulated me.  Do what it takes, but definitely work one ring at a time until you get one good growth ring.

Good luck, guy!

[Del the cat]

I was showing my Daughter ring chasing on a bit of Yew, as I exposed the whiter layer (cruchy stuff) and showing how it came off easy with light strokes of the rasp across the grain (it almost crumbles off) she said it looked like Chicken Breast.
So there you have it, just gently rasp off the Chicken breast.
Wth Yew it comes away from the next ring quite nicely (Mind I'm using fairly coarse grained English Yew)
Del

[wundabred]

i've made quite a few bows, but only chased the ring on a handful.  What i do is this:  I select my target ring, mark it with a sharpie, and then use the methods Pat B described to chase the ring ABOVE it.  That way if i screw up a bit i'm still ok.  Then when i get the entire back uncovered, down to one ring, i use a cabinet scraper to get down to the target ring.  It's a safety.

I have a question:  do you guys consider tool marks to be ring violations?  Or is it only violated if you go through to the earlywood layer?

[Pat B]

Wunda, If remaining tool marks were the death knell for a bow I would never have a successful bow. 
  If the rings are very fine the chances of tool marks being detrimental is higher. Ideally you want as pristine of a back ring as possible but a few blemishes(light tool marks) are tolerated more in thicker rings. The direction the tool marks go can make a difference. Across the grain would be less acceptable because of the possibility of a splinter lifting. Also, something that most folks don't realize is the growth rings are laid down a little at a time. If you look closely at the end grain of a thick growth ring you will see "LUNAR RINGS". These are the portion of the annual ring that is built up each month and are easily seen in a thick annual ring. Whether these rings can be violated and be detrimental I don't know. The delineation between these lunar rings isn't as dramatic as in the annual rings so I doubt they would effect the durability of a bow if violated.  I've never had a ring come apart at a lunar ring that I know of.
  Now, that ought to totally confuse you! 

[JW_Halverson]

Those "lunar rings" are frightening on the hackberry that I have used.  I once spent 18 hours trying to hit one single lunar ring.  Pert' near made a gibbering idiot outa me.  Not that it takes that much to get me to gibber.

 

[Stingray45]

Well the last couple of points shed some new light for me and some help. My problem is necessarly going the whole way through one ring but more or less having a tool mark or something of that nature. I guess my expectation has been that the wood should peel off almost like an onion where you can peel it down to one solid ring and it should come off that way, but if say you have a 1/4" ring and you take out a piece of it say 1/16" thick or cut into it like that by accident. My understanding or thought was that the ring had now been violated and you needed to move on to the next ring. So I'm guessing I was willing to get rid of the good in pursuit of the perfect when it may not be necessary.