Tuning trouble

[afurman25]

Hello all,

I've been reading ton of great info from a lot of you guys for the last few months. This is my first post.  I have completed my first real shootable bow. I'm having some trouble tuning arrows to it. I’m new to bow building as well as archery. I'm a lefty.  When I attempt to bare shaft tune arrows, they are consistently landing turned to the left ( end of arrow kicked to the right). My bow is a very basic ELB but does have a small shelf I added. I attempted to research this and I found my arrows are acting as if my spines are not stiff enough. However, even with a 75 grain field tip it still kicks the arrow. Are there factors I’m not taking into consideration? I read about decreasing brace height, but I’m only at 6.75”
Forgive me if I’ve posted this incorrectly. This is my very first post of these forums.


Bow is 69” nock to nock
Brace height 6.75”
Draw weight @30” is 42#

Arrow info:

340 spine
50gr HIT insert
75gr field tip

[bambule]

Hey,

That is difficult… 340 is very hard for a 42# Bow even with a 30“ drawlenght.
Which kind of fletching do you use?
More feather is sometimes a good way for a better flight of the arrow…
Often the solution is the release - don‘t tune your equipment tune your technique :-).

Just my 2 cents

Greetz
Cord

[afurman25]

I’m attempting to bareshaft tune. No fletching on the shaft. Technique definitely plays a factor. If that’s the case I’m being very consistent with my errors. Once I was getting consistent shot groups I figured it may be a tuning issue.

[bownarra]

Your arrows are way, way too stiff.
I'd try 500 spine left full length or 600 cut to just over 30". 125 grain points.
Barefshaft tuning should only be done once you are very close. Even then people go about it incorrectly.
Shoot a group of fletched shafts. then shoot one bareshaft. What you are looking for is for the bareshaft to group with the fletched shafts.

[afurman25]

Ok I’ll try that. Thank you fellas for the guidance. There are so many rabbit holes to dive down!

[BowEd]

Impact point is the key like said compared to fletched arrows.First at 10 yards then out to 20 yards.
Impact too low/too high of nock point.Imapct too high/too low of nock point on string.
For right handed shooter impact to the left of fletched arrows too stiff.Impact to the right of fletched arrows too weak.Exact opposite for a left handed shooter.
No fish tailing or porposing whatsoever.Flying like a dart.
To really see how identical they are go out to 40 yards if you want,being consistent with your draw length also.
The little tag to the left or right upon impact can be straightened out with fletching.
I shoot all wooden arrows,but compare mine to carbons all the time.

[PaSteve]

What bownarra said. Those shafts are way too stiff. Try 600s maybe even 700s. Good luck

[mmattockx]

Your arrows are way, way too stiff.
I'd try 500 spine left full length or 600 cut to just over 30". 125 grain points.

Spot on. I draw 28" and shoot full length 500 spine arrows with ~100gr points. They don't fly right until I shoot 40+lb draw weights at least and work well up to 50#. OP should be close to in the ballpark with 500 spine and can fine tune from there.

340 spine is something that wheelie bow shooters would use, not a trad archer with a moderate 42# bow.


Mark

[bradsmith2010]

   ok my approach is not very scientific,, I have alot of arrows,, so I just try different ones till i find one that shoots well,,
Im not good at bare shafting,, but I would recommend finding a fletched arrow that shoots well, ,and then bare shaft if needed,,
I have seen test kits with several spined arrows you could try,, they were wood,, but that is what I would shoot out of a wood bow anyway,,
    even the way you hold your bow is gonna effect arrow flight,, if you are just starting,, it may take a while before your testing is consistant,, the better your form,, the wider range of spine you can shoot,, etc etc etc,,
   

[bradsmith2010]

never thought of using the phone, cool idea

[bownarra]

I don’t bother with bare shaft tuning on primitive bows either. Too many technique and build factors at play, and too much shifting of material qualities as humidity and seasons change. If a bow’s giving me trouble, I use the SlowMo feature on my phone to find the fletched arrow setup with perfect flight and make a batch from that.
[/quote]

People say the similar stuff about compounds too
I can usually tell just by shooting an arrow what is happening.....you get to recongnize the flight patterns after a while. Instead of pure bareshafts you can also use very low ,short fletching. However if you can't get consistant bareshaft flight, fletches hide quite a bit of technique based inconsistency. I used to practise with bareshafts to improve my release - it worked

[BowEd]

That's right.I can tell when I shoot an arrow exactly what's going on,and through the years and years of shooting know exactly how to fix it.Whether that be length correction or circumference removal of shaft or adding weight or removing weight to the tip or not.
Many on here can say the the same.Making good arrows is just as important as making good bows.To get the most out of your bow making good arrow shafts,and having a consistent clean release is the key.Other things like checking brace height is considered also.
Once your norm is established through experience it becomes easier.
A consistent clean full draw release whatever length that is,is the only way to diagnose arrow shafts properly.You want that arrow leaving you seeing only the back end of that shaft flying like a dart to the target.Sticking straight in to get it's full impact benefit.Not drifting to the right or left or any other type of wobble along the way.
I suggest getting a spotter who knows about arrow shafts and checking draw length to spot for you to diagnose your problem.
Nothing humidity changing about it either.That's an excuse.Spines on my wooden arrows are very closely the same from winter to summer,and do not affect the arrow flight off my bows.
Making it more difficult with inconsisent draw or poor release or too wide a handle or whatever may make it seem like it's a scientific problem.
I've made hundreds upon hundreds of dozens of wooden arrow shafts parallel/barreled/bob tailed and tapered to some degree and prefer full length tapered shoot shafts with the least amount of fletching needed,as they can be more forgiving IMO.Since I hunt I want more weight up front for the most penetration that I can get.Increasing the efficiency of the whole set up.They shoot fine target shooting also.My posts prove this statement.
Nothing wrong with adjusting an arrows flight with longer deeper fletching to the point of hissing in flight but your efficiency goes down.With the height factor of your fletching determining that close to 8 times that of the length.That's just the way it is.
The more non center shot the handle the more touchy it can get but still it's nothing to overcome yet.I make my handles all the same on my bows mostly now for quite some time so consistency is there.I have made many different types of handles too on different styles of bows with no problems getting shafts to shoot properly from them.
It does'nt take much fletching on a properly bare shaft tuned arrow shaft.
In fact I've shot along with friends with a half dozen bare shaft tuned shafts with no fletching on them at all and had them consistently impact spot on straight into the target 10 ringed.Looking exactly like their carbides in the target.
I hope I've covered most to all the bases with this problem.With more and more experience you will find I'm right.

[bradsmith2010]

yes most time its the shooter that needs tuning,,
take a bow that wont shoot with wrong arrow,, and let a great shooter shoot it,, wow,,somehow it flies perfect,,

[organic_archer]

Agreed. I don’t have any issues with spine on my personal bows unless they’re severely over or under spined. I shoot arrows that are far too stiff by commonly recommended standards.

I still like to shoot a variety of test arrows out of customer work at the draw length they ordered. You can’t predict their shooting style and it’s wise to eliminate as many variables as possible.

Was also referring to extreme seasonal humidity shifts here in the Midwest affecting the cast of bows, not arrows. Bows get so soggy here in 90% humidity that cast is visibly lessened. It would be pointless to bare shaft tune.

[BowEd]

Arrows that I make for other people are spined to the "draw weight" that they shoot from the bow that I make for them.No matter what style of shooting it is.Through the exchange I explain the ups and downs and care of a wooden or sinewed bow.They know exaxctly what they are getting into if not before hand.
I keep my bows inside when not using them.We live in the midwest also.Some slight draw weight loss is seen but not enough to shoot different spined arrows from the same bow.
There is a variance of 4 to 5 pounds of spine that a shaft will still shoot good from.
Bare shaft tuning is an asset for good flying arrows and will always be a part of my routine.