"Poor man's yew" Sambucus nigra

[Rākau]

So, everything I read about elder is that it is fantastic, so much so that it has earned the title of 'poor man's yew'. From what I have read it seems to be very elastic in compression and very strong in tension and quite light weight and likes quite a deep cross section.

I have two staves that I recently harvested and both have waaay more reflex than I anticipated, see photo.

I have two questions for those with elder experience:

1) what are some designs that have worked well for you?

2)how would you go about dealing with this stave?

I read a post from Leonwood suggesting that you could deflex the handle area and make an R/D. I am interested by this idea, but would like to hear other suggestions also.


Cheers,
Zach


20200331_122256 by Zachary Press, on Flickr

[bownarra]

Ye it is excellent wood. The bows I've made from it have surprised me
Heat treating transforms. As for bow desing it has done all I've asked and more in a few different designs. Just make sure the belly is flat.

[simson]

some suggestions:
http://primitive-bows.com/tag/elder/

[Rākau]

thanks bownarra, I will heat treat for sure, how wide/long would you recomend for a 50lb at 27 bow?

thanks Simon, your bows have been an inspiration from the start, are there any recomendations you have in terms of width/length for a 50lb at 27" bow?

[simk]

Zach, this wood indeed is similar to yew: lightweight and springy. but: you can easily overstress it, compression and tensionwise. don't overdo it. i have snapped some over the back and when i tried a little elb profile last year got some compression fractures. tough it can make great bow. cheers

edit: the compression fractures obviously occurred due to a tiny tillering mistake: so just be careful.the back is mainly critical @ nodes.... if you have some on your stave...

[lleroy]

Do you guys have experience with heat bending on this wood?

[Rākau]

Thanks for the analysis simk, luckily I have two node free staves, I will just go for a standard flat bow design then, keep them as wide as possible, 2" in this case, for half of the limb length, then straight taper to tips. I will try to heat some of the absurd reflex out too, maybe deflex the handle area or something.

[simson]

On a node free stave I would start with about 65" and a more stacked design with about 1.25 -1.5" width and very slightly bendy handle.

[bownarra]

On a node free stave I would start with about 65" and a more stacked design with about 1.25 -1.5" width and very slightly bendy handle.

Sounds good to me and if doing a stiff handle I'd cut the stave at 68.
I would be tempted to heat treat it and flatten the whole stave out at the same time. Maybe leave 1" reflex.

[Rākau]

Sorry Simon, just to clarify, when you say a "Stacked design" does this mean narrower and thicker as opposed to wider and thinner?

I have already deflexed one stave at the handle for an rd design. I will go for a standard longbow with the other.

Ok Bownarra, will keep one at 68"

thanks for your advice guys

[simson]

Yep, that's what I meant. Something like my No. 5: http://primitive-bows.com/elderberry-longbow-5528-no-5/
You inspirated me to do another elder, grapped one out of my blancs and now at tiller stadium, mine is about 66 ntn, aiming for about 50.

Btw., I never heard elder is poor man's yew - always thought that about buckthorn (which is colorwise similar).

Good luck on your projects!

[Rākau]

haha wow you got that done fast!!! It is another stunner too, those pin knot clusters look gnarly, at least I have a few great examples to aim for once my staves season.

oh interesting, I saw it written by someone on here. maybe it is just something that is said about any above average bow wood?