Author Topic: Red osier Arrows ..Help  (Read 6759 times)

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Offline Bowjo

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Red osier Arrows ..Help
« on: March 03, 2016, 10:25:58 pm »
I am temporarily in Wisconsin on Lake Michigan.I have seen a lot of brush here that I believe is Red Osier Dogwood.If I get permission to cut some,what size do I cut?What can I expect for spine on these arrows?When I use river cane ,I try to stay within 1/2" to 1/4" on knock end.Should I try to do the same here.I find that most river cane is to light in spine.Does dogwood spine any stiffer.....Thank you Joe

Offline Pat B

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Re: Red osier Arrows ..Help
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2016, 11:03:08 pm »
I generally cut hardwood shoots at about 3/8". My arrows are 29" to 30" long, 3/8" or slightly less at the point end and about 5/16 at the nock. I shoot 55#@26". I make mostly sourwood arrows but I have made a few red osier arrows and they seem similar to sourwood. Be sure the shoots you cut are going into their third growing season or older. The shoots will have small branches at the top. Straight shoots with no branches are too young for good arrows.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline crooketarrow

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Re: Red osier Arrows ..Help
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2016, 11:07:58 pm »
 Dog wood is a bit stiffer than cane. Tuffest, heav'est shoot arrows we have here in WV.

I get a strong 1/2,5/8 to 3/8's X 30 long. Recut them when I get to them. First off don't cut them as low as you can. Cut them above the natural bend towards the sun.

 Lot of hassle to try to get these ends straight. Save the time and sweat you get trying to straighten those ends.

 I start out bigger and file through the kinks (short bend) making those long curves easy to take out. I cut, bundle let season a good year. Most shoot woods only get better after each year seasoning.

 Filling through the bends saves tons on time. I'd slowly file to my needed. Filling down, tapering as I go.

  A lot better than trying to heat out the all the bends.
DEAD IS DEAD NO MATTER HOW FAST YOUR ARROW GETS THERE
20 YEARS OF DOING 20 YEARS OF LEARNING 20 YEARS OF TEACHING

Offline Bowjo

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Re: Red osier Arrows ..Help
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2016, 11:21:27 pm »
Thanks guys....I hope what I am seeing turns out to be Dogwood...

Offline Sockrablur

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Re: Red osier Arrows ..Help
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2016, 09:26:35 am »
bowjo that red brush is beautiful. Each piece wood has its own unique character and you don't know what you will find until you start working on it. Some arrows have all the bark remaining others I have scraped and sanded out of stubbornness to make an arrow. For me you cant buy the perfect imperfections found in natural materials crafted with your own hands through trial and error... its a labor of love.










Three years ago I was super excited to get out and cut arrows from the woods around me. I went out and was able to find red osier dogwood and wild rose. The first year I went through and read every one of pats posts in the arrow section I could find and cut 500 shoots and made some arrows in 9mo. most what I cut was larger in diameter than necessary. You can reduce shafting a lot with a small thumb plane after drying, so there were arrows in there but I had a lot to learn.

here are some things ive found that may be helpful to you starting out. To me there was a notable difference in workability of the shoots after a full year of drying and again a difference after two years drying. they simply respond better to heat bending and keep those corrections better.







when cutting I love to find and cut a shoot that's to large at the base and to small 7' later at the top. now that's not what I cut every time those are special but you see the point... I know there is an arrow in there! What you cut will shrink, how much varies. I cut in the winter, leave the bark on, cut with extra length on each end, this all helps. Give some thought to your storage drying location too. I keep my shoots in my garage rafters. It can get over 100 deg in the summer up there but my shoots have already dried during the winter months while they were at their wettest. in winter they probably have less water in them than in summer or spring. I started off with twine but have come to love the Velcro strips for wires to bundle my sticks. so easy to readjust and reuse I don't mind the money.









I love to find a new area to cut that no one has... look for wet areas and thickets that are high so the shoots have to grow up tall and straight to get to sun light, lower branches often seem to die off or are less developed.

Don't pass the 10' thorn bushes. Even if you don't know its scientific name cut some and look at them. if the shaft is hollow and crushes... no good! if it looks wood like and hard maybe with a pith cut some, bundle and dry it.

The prof is in the shot! Spine testers & grain scales are great tools but the best question to answer when making a primitive arrow is " How does it shoot?"  bows and more so self bows are unique creatures with variables. Learn what your bow likes through trial and error use those great tools and your notes to build another arrow with the same flight from that same bow. That's progress!

Take notes of your arrow builds for me it was educational and fun. It answered questions like How much weight does my finish add? Does it change arrow spine? Could I use extra finish to add spine? How much weight and or spine can I scrape and sand off a shaft like ive been cutting? How many arrows have I made? What weight/spine changes if I did 3 lightening groves rather than scrape and sand the entire shaft? What about 4 groves? The ezelap stone is for touching up the plane blade. if you have not appreciated the difference in a sharp blade and a dull one when working well its significant to me.





Post pictures! We love to see them and there is a wealth of knowledge here to help you along. I'm no expert but I'm excited about what ive learned. My second winter I cut 300 shoots, after they dried for a year I took down a bundle of 12 to work on. after cutting down to 36" and heat straightening I had 8 shafts that were the right spine/size and ready to continue with. The point being a year of cutting, making, shooting and asking Pat questions learns you a lot :) I will throw up some photos because they are fun. Good luck to you!

« Last Edit: March 04, 2016, 01:05:21 pm by Sockrablur »

Offline Tracker0721

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Re: Red osier Arrows ..Help
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2016, 10:03:32 am »
Awesome advice ^^^ and your building up a huge stockpile! I need to get adding to mine.
May my presence go unnoticed, may my shot be true, may the blood trail be short. Amen.

Offline Urufu_Shinjiro

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Re: Red osier Arrows ..Help
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2016, 10:52:40 am »
Sockrablur, great advice and very well written and explained, great job! Also excellent pics and pretty arrows!

Offline Bowjo

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Re: Red osier Arrows ..Help
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2016, 12:59:18 pm »
Thanks everyone......Joe

Offline Bowjo

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Re: Red osier Arrows ..Help
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2016, 10:18:22 pm »
Just cut and bundled a bunch I found here in Alaska....well it is Alaska, Wisconsin.Thanks again ....Joe

Offline neuse

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Re: Red osier Arrows ..Help
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2016, 06:47:36 am »
Sockrablur,

Beautiful arrows and bow.
I have your build along saved a favorite on my PC.

I will be at OJAM this weekend, hoping someone there will have some shoots for sale.

Offline TimBo

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Re: Red osier Arrows ..Help
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2016, 01:47:42 pm »
Sockrablur, great post - it's obviously a labor of love!  That's quite a stash you have there.  Bowjo - good luck with yours!  I have been getting rose, hazel, and dogwood this winter and can't wait to get going on them. 

Offline Sockrablur

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Re: Red osier Arrows ..Help
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2016, 12:25:48 am »
Bowjo ill send you some Red Oiser Dogwood 2 years dry to try if you post pictures of your arrow builds on this thread, what do you say sir?
Thanks for the compliments guys, it's fun learning as we go :)

Offline RyanR

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Re: Red osier Arrows ..Help
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2016, 07:09:09 am »
Those arrows really have some nice character. I know I have seen red osier numerous times while hunting. I may have to gather some. I think it's the same stuff we refer to as red brush.

Offline BowEd

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Re: Red osier Arrows ..Help
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2016, 09:12:34 pm »
Great in depth description of the process Sockrablur.
Been shooting these  dogwods for some time too[grows by me here] and I bundle mine in groups of 7.6 around 1.Straighten them every few days until they stay straight.No heat.Wood has a memory.Let them season straightened then reduce them for shafts when needed.Like shown it's nice to get at least a few dozen supply in different stages of finishing that way you have some seasoned ready to use.Just like bow staves.
These shafts are unique I feel because the mass weight of them usually is there spine 10 times less.For instance a 650 grain dogwood shaft will be around 65 spine.That's 30" long with a 125 grain field point/feathers and finish.You can leave them tapered or parallel them.I use a farriers' rasp then a block of wood with 36 grit paper then to the speed drill and final sanding.Just my two cents there's no written in stone way to do these.Final judge is yourself off your favorite bow.
BowEd
You got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
Ed