Stop Settling (pic heavy)

[Chippintuff]

I agree with what I understand Nathaniel to be saying. Since we do have a luxury of tools, plentiful material of almost any variety we could wish, unlimited instructions and collaboration and time that we can spare without going hungry, we should do the best we can. I agree with that fully. We are enjoying perfecting a trade that is as old as mankind, and in doing that we are celebrating with our best efforts.

As to broken points, my percentage is low, but I also have many that I have been stumped on and have laid aside for another day before I did break them.

Some ancient people had abundant stone to work while others had little to none. We not only have abundant stone, but we have the  greatest selection of types and grades that has ever been available to anybody. Let's make it shine.

As to thin, some exceptionally well made points (e.g. Thebes and Eden) were thick. All the little triangle points and tiny drills i found as a kid were delicately made. A point just about has to be perfect to be really thin, so naturally the best of craftsmen made those.

In defense of crude points, sharp cuts even if crude. I have a lot of points that are crude by my present standards. They were made when I was starting out, and they would have brought home the bacon. A knapper who cannot get them as thin or as delicate as another knapper should not feel embarrassed about his quality. We have all been there ourselves. Maybe it is not good to get complacent and stop striving for that next plateau, but our road of development should be appreciated.

WA

[Lobo69ss]

    I`ve been knapping for several years now.  Many of my points have hinges &stacks that used to bother the crap out of me... I was sitting by the campfire on a fine evening with a few friends while participating in a living history event.   While yakking about how the day had been I was doing some finish work pressure flaking a couple points for my trade blanket... wound up snapping an ear off either by trying too hard or maybe not paying close enough attention to the details... I threw it into the fire pit cussing my bad habit of screwing up my points too often. 
   A friend retrieved the point & asked what ws so wrong with it to make me that upset over a little mistake?  I pointed out the tip of the ear missing & he asked if I had any of my authentic points with me for display purposes...   I did so he told meto get them out & find him a REALLY nice 1...  I spent a few minutes looking them over & handed him a finely flaked close to paper thin Madison triangle...   He looked at it with appreciation for the workmanship of someone we`d never get to meet, and then asked me what took so long finding a good one?  I showed him the box of points & blades I had in front of me, some were thick & chunky, symmetry was off on quite a few, hinges & stacks on others...
  Looking them over he then asked if I thought that the "screw ups" got used or thrown into the fire pit...  Well most likely they would have been used as they were, since they tended to show at least some use wear & perhaps some refreshening or resharpening, some had impact fractures on the tips from being used on a hunt...
  He told me to remember the 3 gottas of lithic technology... they`ve gotta have a sharp point to start a cut, gotta have sharp edges to continue the cut, & gotta be thin enough to be hafted in whatever way they were intended to be used :spear point, arrowhead, or knife blades}...  Thin, pretty, exquisite workmanship didn`t make the list for everyday tools.
   Doyal pointed out that if I was intending to make jewelry as in a necklace point or something of that nature then it`s GOTTA be pretty `cause pretty sells...    A hinge or stack back off of the actual cutting edge won`t stop a point or blade from making a cut, a thicker point has more mass to achieve deeper penetration into an animal for a surer kill, a  thicker knife blade will resist side forces {torque} better than a thin blade will...
   Somewhere around that time I realized that I`d tossed a lot of usable points out trying for a G10 when in the real world a G8 would work just as well... I don`t think of it as settling for less than the best as when making jewelry points I do aim for the moon, but for most knapping I recreate the things I`ve found in corn fields & creeks that actually were used in the past.

[bjrogg]

I think we'll said Lobo. My cousin has many primitive stone points and tools really make mine look like jewelry pieces. The real work is done by the B-C people of the world. I agree we should try for our best and owe the animals we try to harvest that we perfect our skills to the best of our abilities. I have not hunted yet with my points, arrows, or bow. I have practiced a lot and made vast improvements in both my arrows and my shooting skills. I don't think I'm quite there yet but I believe I'm close. Zuma I think hit it on the nose. It doesn't matter how good you equipment is if you don't test it a develope the skills to properly use it.

[bjrogg]

PS Sasquatch that is a beautiful collection and I do agree some stuff is not good enough to hunt with.

[mullet]

Nathaniel; we have points down here that are paper thin and long and wide, your Hillsborough, Newnans and Marions. They are few and far between and usually heat treated coral or high grade chert. The man most of us learned from in Central Fl, Claude Van Order, can replicate these in his sleep. But, he will tell you it depends a lot on having the highest grade material. The majority of arrow heads here are triangle, Pinellis points, and Hernandos. The Hernandose with very short notches. And I can also say that when I haft a point to hunt it is the best I can make. It may not be pretty and thin but it is sharp and will kill stuff.
I have a pit full of stuff that is broken also, because I still try to get my points as thin as the Newnan point unless I just run out of material before I can get the point that thin or break it.

[Tower]

I understand what Nathaniel saying.  I know we all marvel at the way some of our ancient man mastered the con cordial fracture.   I was always trying to thin them out as much as possible. I've put hours & hours & hours of thought into thinning points to their max.    Some of them points make me look like an amateur.   I think 2 things are needed to manufacture points that thin.  #1 is the drive( the want to).  The perfectionist.   
#2 an abundance of high quality material just lying around for the taking. 
As for the functionality of thin points.  They may not be salvageable after a hit or miss but it's just a stone point.  They will make another. 
My hunting points are about 1.5 long 1" wide & average 60 to 70 grains. Many have chipped up after a shot, but most are still salvageable.   
I tend to retire them. & if you miss & bust it, remember, it's just a rock. 
My thoughts on the subject. 

[mullet]

I agree, Don. Most of my points using the material in Florida are simple triangle points. 5/8- 1" wide, 1"-1 1/4", long , around 90- 100 grains.

And Nathaniel, i agree except, I don't like hunting with points that light and breakable. I want them sharp. But when I get one that thin it goes in the case.

[AncientTech]

I will have to look for the reference.  But, I believe there is evidence that at the Colha quarries the prehistoric knappers set aside the highest grade materials to make the thinnest stuff.  And, I believe that thermal alteration was employed maybe 28% of the times, at least in one site.

Also, few people probably know this, but I believe that there is ethnographic evidence which suggests that sometimes stone tipped arrows were used as skinning knives, in skinning small game, when the hunter did not have a knife on hand.

Generally, what the majority of people in flintknapping appear to strive for is a certain visual effect.  For many, the visual effect is the bottom line.  But, the complexities of the reality of prehistoric life must have made the subject very different for prehistoric peoples. 

For example, if both a stout clunky point, and a thin sharp point can kill equally, but the stout clunky points are more durable than the thin sharp points, then which points are better?  To some prehistoric people, the stouter points may have been better.  But, if the bottom line is a certain visual appearance, then the thin sharp point is better - even if it breaks more frequently.

[vinemaplebows]

I prefer a point that has a bit of backbone on a arrow. I usually define a hunting point on whether it will go in my collection , or not. I is pretty simple for me. Sure you can take a Porche to the woods, it will get you there, but I prefer a 4x4...just a opinion.

[Tower]

Sure you can take a Porche to the woods, it will get you there, but I prefer a 4x4...just a opinion.

I like that

[Tower]

I have found in areas of TX where good material is extremely hard to come by the points were thick & heavily reworked. 
East Tx & low grade gravel & petrified wood points.  Very little heat treated stone points with a lot of meat on them. I think they wanted the point to survive through any abuse.   
Durability seems to be the goal where stone is scares.
To me a contributing factor is material availability

[AncientTech]

While I can make a case for durability, I can also make a case for aesthetics.  Where aesthetics may have come into play is with regard to trade.

There was a saying that the Indians would trade all of their land for a few red feathers, to wear in their hair.  Europeans who had early contact with the New Worlders recognized this intense sense of vanity, and soon tapped into it.

When one looks at how lithics were traded out from certain areas, what can be seen is that they were bartered as a sort of currency.  And, with this in mind, it is not hard to see how views that pertained to aesthetics could have come into play.

In other words, if I were to make ten of my own heads to shoot, I might do just fine with ugly clunkers.  But, if I make ten heads to trade, and ten other guys make ten heads to trade, then I may be able to do better, and get more bang for my heads, if they look better than the other ten guy's heads, given the buyers (traders) sense of vanity.

If this theory is correct, then it would probably be more noticeable in items that were likely vanity items.  For example, if the Fulton Turkey Tail knife was worn on a cord, strung about the neck, it would have been a highly visible item, that everyone would have marveled at.  So, in appealing to the buyers sense of vanity the maker could have used the best stone, the best flaking, the best of everything.  And, once people starting obtaining such an item, there would have been some sense of vanity that would have compelled people to want to wear the best looking knife "on the block".  And, everyone would have wanted one.

So, I can see lithic design being driven by both vanity, and by utilitarian purpose, depending on the context.     

[iowabow]

I have spoken to tower at length about this subject and totally agree in fact I agree with most all points. I will just add a couple more myself:
Great conversation.
For the past couple of years my hunting points have preformed amazingly. They were 145 gr, thick, and about 7/8 by 2.5 inches if memory serves me right. They have been very robust and reused/ resharpened multiple times. BUT...
I can now make thinner points and shafts and have made an adjustment to my gear so that I can have faster arrow flight. I have made this change because of the follow reasons.
1. these smaller point types are easier/faster to make
2. Faster arrow flight and lighter arrows thinner diameter and shorter length
3. So that I can see the differences in point types as they take deer.
4. I have a great supply of flint and do not need to worry about breaking a point during production.
5. I have the skill to do it (only took 5 years)

Everyone here is making very good points and I think there as so many factors at play. Your compass for point use during hunting is personal and should be a conversation you have with nature. 
Just remember point size, shape, wt, designs are all factors as we set up our gear. My move to a lighter wt point could require  completely changing arrow length and spine and the feather design.  Happy hunting and follow the Spirit Guide :::.

[Knapper]

," remember, it's just a rock. 
My thoughts on the subject."  Don Tower
Words to live by. In our quest to replicate artifacts we look at the piece to be replicated, in our quest to better our skills we look at what our peers make. To get the most for our investment we slab and spall so we get more points. To get the most of our time we knapp modern style vs abbo. Im sure our ancestors where the same. Depending on their need and circumstance dictated the desired point. 
Knapper

[AncientTech]

I have spoken to tower at length about this subject and totally agree in fact I agree with most all points. I will just add a couple more myself:
Great conversation.
For the past couple of years my hunting points have preformed amazingly. They were 145 gr, thick, and about 7/8 by 2.5 inches if memory serves me right. They have been very robust and reused/ resharpened multiple times. BUT...
I can now make thinner points and shafts and have made an adjustment to my gear so that I can have faster arrow flight. I have made this change because of the follow reasons.
1. these smaller point types are easier/faster to make
2. Faster arrow flight and lighter arrows thinner diameter and shorter length
3. So that I can see the differences in point types as they take deer.
4. I have a great supply of flint and do not need to worry about breaking a point during production.
5. I have the skill to do it (only took 5 years)

Everyone here is making very good points and I think there as so many factors at play. Your compass for point use during hunting is personal and should be a conversation you have with nature. 
Just remember point size, shape, wt, designs are all factors as we set up our gear. My move to a lighter wt point could require  completely changing arrow length and spine and the feather design.  Happy hunting and follow the Spirit Guide :::.

These are very good observations.  I started trying to haft points, around 1985.  They were all glass points, attached to "arrow weed", which is a woody plant that grows along canals, in Arizona.  In hafting glass knives, it was not too difficult, with regard to splitting a wooden handle, and tying in a knife, with cordage.  But, trying to tie points to shafts sometimes was odius, depending on the thickness of the point.  Thin glass points were easy to tie in.  But, thicker points were hard to deal with.