Glue questions

[freke]

Hi
I am in many way a beginner bowyer (and also on the forum), I feel not confident with glues and feel I could do better…

At the moment I use hide glue that I cook myself for gluing wood but it dry fast (result is okay), but backing is messy. 

I have bought another dry glue for backing that are a kind of hide glue(“harlim” – Scandinavians may understand) but stated to be more elastic (recommended by a local bowyer).  It was stated on the website I bought it from that all hide and bone glues could be modified with urea or salt to get slower drying (but no recipes)  – anyone know how to do this and how it affect the results?

Is there any good postings or websites explaining how to best use fish and hide glues for best results, tips and tricks etc. ?

Cheers

[autologus]

Most of us here use Tightbond III or Unibond 800 or some of the various epoxies for wood to wood applications, the most common use of hide glues here is for sinew, rawhide or skins.  Maybe someone will have some experience with the methods you have mentioned.  Good luck.

Grady

[Wooden Spring]

As far as I'm concerned Resorcinol is the only way to go. Amazon's got it for around $60 per quart, and you can do a LOT of bows for that amount. No bake, easy to mix, not affected by temperature or moisture, and absolutely indestructible glue joint.

[mikekeswick]

Ask your question on atarn.net 
I would experiment with fish bladder glue mixed with your hide glue. Fish bladder glue will gel much slower than hide glue. Sinew glue is somewhere inbetween the two. By drying time do you mean gelling time?

[freke]

Ask your question on atarn.net 
I would experiment with fish bladder glue mixed with your hide glue. Fish bladder glue will gel much slower than hide glue. Sinew glue is somewhere inbetween the two. By drying time do you mean gelling time?

with drying I meann, gelling. I often find the glue gell too quick, for only wood work isn't it any issue but with backing job I find it challanging:)

[JoJoDapyro]

Do you keep it warm while applying it? I have a small chocolate warming pot (Small electric crock-pot) That keeps my glue warm, and keeps it from geling until it is on the bow.

[willie]

I have bought hide glue from Eugene,

http://bjorn.net/index.html

you may not find the info you are looking for an his web site, but he has a .doc that explains how to modify your glue with the urea or salt. Maybe he sent it to  me by email. I will look for it if you pm your email to me, or Perhaps Eugene may respond to a email question with the precise info you are looking for.

[freke]

Do you keep it warm while applying it? I have a small chocolate warming pot (Small electric crock-pot) That keeps my glue warm, and keeps it from geling until it is on the bow.

I usauly boiling water, and keep the glue in the water bath so the answer is yes...it is actualy when I put it on the bow it has a tendency to geel and and it  leeds to umsmooth and thicker areas...I usualy solve it with a finger in the hot water on glue (maybe that is the right way:) ). I have use wood glue from the store as well for backing Casco (not sure if its sold in the states), and it is much easier as it is liquid and allow much longer working time

[Marc St Louis]

If you warm the bow right after assembly then the gelled glue will turn liquid again

[freke]

Have play around with the hide glue, and I love it more and more. And with an iron on lowest heat I now manage to add hide:).

Was thinking about the finish, if I have exposed hide glue and want to water proof it - what is the best finish to use?

Cheers/ Jonas

[ekalavya]

Hide glue is quite tricky to use and has its critical temperature ....

however it is worth to try it .... start with small not so critical things like
glueing on feathers and handles until you are giving it a try with laminates
or two pieces of wood , like a hickory backing etc.

it helps to warm up the wood and to keep the glue warm in enough hot water ...
(the glue should be liquid like honey .... not like spirit and water ... and probably not like pitch
or tar, though it would work in some cases)

when working outdoors you can use a pit of glowing coals to keep the wood warm ...
just fix it in the right height and use leather gloves or so , because it is better to the hands

[freke]

what kind of bow finish work best on hide glue (and hide)?
-  I always shoot outdoor and here is the weather wet and grey half the year and I need some protection.

After some practise in the last weeks on diffrent small projects, did I mange to put raw hide on bow last night:) and it looks good
- found few things makes most difference, how wet the hide should be (little is enough) and right temperature on the glue and keep external heat source to melt the hide on the bow. 

I am intrested in silk backing -  I tried to use same technique as for raw hide (very much more difficult), the test sample had been sealed long ago with waterproof wood glue and I sand it and rinsed it in alchole (not good back to glue on) - it was easy to peal off the and the fabric had been perfectly soakt in glue and was brittle like paper and I need no force to tear it apart...
Dose hide glue work with fabric and is there any speacial technice to add it?

[PatM]

Birch Bark is hard to beat. Snakeskin is another option. Rawhide gives a better surface than raw sinew as a base for waterproofing but it is a bit of a sponge for moisture which doesn't really solve the problem of keeping sinew dry.
 There is no point to gluing on a porous backing like silk with more hide glue. You're just adding more of the same type of stuff that you're trying to keep dry.

[Pat B]

Any good bow finish should seal the bow well enough to protect the glue from moisture.

[freke]

 I have previously only use a furniture wax (black bison, despite the name i think its french), or shelac( like to work with it but have a felling it easy get a scratch in the surface) but those bows was true self bows or backed with water proof white glue - or is maybe  trueoil or danishoil better?