Looooong Osage Bow "Myths"..(pics added pg 3)

[mikekeswick]

Sure mike...I gotta another myth to dispell...making a same dimension sinew wood bow as a Turkish flight hornbow   ...and yeah..I hate to say it and admit it,but I like longer bows to..for shooting that is

Shall we have a go at that one together.
You do one and i'll have a try too.
I've got a short yew stave that I don't mind destroying! I'm not putting a finish on it though so I can re-use the sinew after 
Rules are 60#@28 and 47 ntn Turkish warbow style. I'll send you some dimensions for widths/thicknesses.
Those are very conservative figures for a 'proper' hornbow.
 

[mikekeswick]

http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr283/mikekeswick/P1010410.jpg
http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr283/mikekeswick/turkish21.jpg
Only drawn 23 or so here because it was the only photo I could find at the moment 

[PatM]

Can I play in that contest too? Why didn't I get an invite? 

[Badger]

  I think to be fair with a contest like this the 48" wood bow would need to be able to draw out to about 30" and match approx speed of the horn bow. We did a contest a few years ago where Tim Baker challeneged a horn bow to a contest against one of his 2 hour red oak board bows. They both drew 52# at 28" I believe and the red oak bow just barely edged out the horn bow by 1 ft per second in the test. I think with light flight arrows the Horn bow would have scored much higher as it was a flight bow. The test was with 10 grains arrow weight per pound draw weight and the horn bow scored 170 while the baker red oak bow scored 171fps. I htink the horn bow is about 44" long. Bakers bow was baout 66" long.

[blackhawk]

Mike a couple of years ago I tried a big recurved sinewed bow with 10" starting reflex,and it was a few inches longer than an average Turkish horn bow....that thing was a sxreamer for about 3 dozen shots before giving up the ghost...have at it...I know what's gonna happen..and so do you ..they put horn on the belly of those bows for a reason

Your more than welcome to have a go to pat...

Steve...for those very reasons is one of the big reasons why I still haven't made a horn bow...although we all love the various shapes n profiles of a horn bow...and I'm sure I'll make some for that very reason alone....but when I can spend 4-6 hours into a selfbow that shoots as fast or faster than a horn bow that takes 10 times the work,and won't be as finicky,and easier to shoot accurately it makes it real hard to get started on one

[PatM]

I think to be really fair the middle ground would be a Crimean Tatar style bow in an actual warbow like weight.  Draw it however far you want There are no rules about drawlength in battle. See how they do then.

[mikekeswick]

 
I'm only a jokin' and a jestin' guys.
Pat - Crimean Tatar bows were drawn a fair bit further than 28' . In war you would want the most out of your weapon no matter what it was. Bows (all bows) have an optimum draw length and this is what they would have been used at. I also suggested a low weight to give the wood bow a chance.
Badger - I'll try and get some fps readings for my new hornbow and maybe start another thread.
Blackhawk - Sorry to hijack and i'm looking forward to seeing your osage bow finished.

[PatM]

That's why I said make it heavier and the draw whatever you want. If my bow draws 32 inches, why should it be handicapped by a 28 inch draw? If the consensus is that composite bows aren't more efficient until they can pay for their relative increased outer limb mass per draw weight, why limit things to 60 pounds?
 Sorry about he hijack BH but you started it.

[Badger]

  I don't think the short wood bows could compete if they had to draw out like 32". I just took an osage recurve of mine that I didn't like much, 52" long.  I was going to use it for flight but wasn't satified with the speed. Anyway I had it marked at 50@@23". I just drew it out to about 72#@31". Lost all of its reflex!! WTF?? LOL. 

[PatM]

So do the hornbows Steve.... Part of the secret is a sinew backing. You can make the wood mushy and as long as you draw it far enough to strain the sinew it will save the  day.
 I built a sister bow to the bow on the other thread and it was 60 inches long and heavily reflexed. For whatever reason it chrysaled badly just flexing it to the straight position. I figured what the heck and balanced the tiller and shot it anyway. It was definitely what you would call mushy and yet if I drew it to 32-33 inches it would far outshoot any other bow.
 I have little doubt that with even a modestly better compression wood on the belly that design would fare well against any other.
 For the record the Crimean Tatar bow in TTBB is 62 inches long. Not too many composite warbows are actually as short as we are led to believe. Nor do they always have ridiculous levels of reflex when actually in use.

[blackhawk]

Got two coats of oil on this one  ...came in 6 pounds light  ...mass weight ended up being 26.8 ounces and right on target..it has a little bit of reflex  ....it shoots great for me,and prob will be a favorite target shooter    .....I could shoot this one alllllllll day,and never get fatigued or loose me teef   

[Gus]

Very Cool Thread Indeed...

Looking forward to seeing how she comes out... 

-gus

[seabass]

bring it to the classic.i want to get a look at it.can't wait to hold it.see you soon brother.