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Author Topic: How to ? ERC with no sapwood  (Read 2419 times)

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Offline Fred Arnold

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How to ? ERC with no sapwood
« on: June 30, 2013, 12:10:11 pm »
I have this eastern red cedar and  :-\ have no idea how to proceed so I'm throwing out a few questions. 73 1/2" L, 2" W at the narrowest point, plenty of depth with medium to wide rings, and plenty of knots.

With no sapwood to work with will this bow have to be backed? What would be the best backing? I have bamboo and rawhide but hate to hide the knots. Would it be plausible to back with one strong layer of sinew for strength?

All tutorials I have found relating to ERC have been with sapwood intact.
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Offline Thesquirrelslinger

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Re: How to ? ERC with no sapwood
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2013, 12:39:34 pm »
I have never tried it, but if you get it to one ring, you might be able to make a selfbow out of it. Its semi-ring-porus(according to https://utextension.tennessee.edu/publications/documents/PB1692.pdf), and a thin layer of sinew would probably help a lot.
You could cable back it-
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,40525.0.html

I have only made a few ERC bows... and none of high weight or only heartwood(although I have toyed with the idea cause heartwood stronger than sap)
Cable backing does work well though IMO... cheap nylon mason's line, nock to nock, just tied on...
But with a cable back make sure you tiller it whip ended, cause the wood thickness changes but the cable doesn't.
I don't know what would be the best backing... Ask someone who knows more about backings.
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Offline Newindian

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Re: How to ? ERC with no sapwood
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2013, 12:48:38 pm »
I'm not sure if that is erc, the rings would be paper thin, it certainly not heart wood if it was it would have a deep red or purple color. That said I have made a few light weight unbacked juniper heartwood bows ( ELBs) and feel it would be possible to make a heavier bow. sinew would be the best backing for juniper (best wood to pair sinew with) and when I make one I will use only heart wood if possible.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2013, 01:12:59 pm by Newindian »
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Offline Fred Arnold

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Re: How to ? ERC with no sapwood
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2013, 01:05:48 pm »
Well  ??? I'm pretty sure its ERC. If not then maybe someone can identify it. It seems to be awful light in weight compared to other wood I've worked with.
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Offline toomanyknots

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Re: How to ? ERC with no sapwood
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2013, 01:15:02 pm »
All you gotta do to tell if it's erc is just smell it, right?  ;D
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Offline Newindian

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Re: How to ? ERC with no sapwood
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2013, 01:16:17 pm »
It looks like it except for that picture of the growth rings,
Quote from: toomanyknots on June 30, 2013, 01:15:02 pm
All you gotta do to tell if it's erc is just smell it, right?  ;D
1+ if it smells good don't worry about it
« Last Edit: June 30, 2013, 01:19:44 pm by Newindian »
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Offline Newindian

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Re: How to ? ERC with no sapwood
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2013, 01:29:12 pm »
Quote from: Fred Arnold on June 30, 2013, 01:05:48 pm
Well  ??? I'm pretty sure its ERC. If not then maybe someone can identify it. It seems to be awful light in weight compared to other wood I've worked with.
That pic looks like what I have
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blackhawk

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Re: How to ? ERC with no sapwood
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2013, 01:43:15 pm »
Just because it has wide rings doesn't mean its not erc...that's def juniperus virginiana...I find the wider ringed stuff to be more "pale" in color...and not as dense...lots you can do with that stave...i see two options and I either case I'd get it down as close to one growth ring(chase a ring),and then drill n plug those knots,and then from there you can either shorten it up and make a sinew backed bow,or a longbow at around the length it already is with a good rawhide backing....either of those would be best for your current skill level....could you plane it flat n glue a hickory or bamboo backer on...sure ya could...but I'd stick with simple now for you...BUT its up to you,not me n what I think...just my two cents.....by the way I've done all the above and sinew is my favorite backer for erc....
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Offline gpw

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Re: How to ? ERC with no sapwood
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2013, 02:08:16 pm »
  ERC does make a fine ELB when backed ... We use very thin (3/32” ) Hickory strips on a flattened back ..   My all time Favorite bows ... :D  A little Perry Reflex really helps keep the string follow to 0  ..
 Never made one above 70# though ... maybe not right for really heavy bows  ?
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Offline Fred Arnold

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Re: How to ? ERC with no sapwood
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2013, 04:34:02 pm »
Blackhawk, I'm leaning towards the rawhide backed longbow maybe 68" NTN. I've got plenty of short osage to sinew back so don't feel the need to shorten a longer stave. I appreciate your input and will post for more help when I get stated. 
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Offline Thesquirrelslinger

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Re: How to ? ERC with no sapwood
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2013, 05:48:45 pm »
Quote from: Fred Arnold on June 30, 2013, 01:05:48 pm
Well  ??? I'm pretty sure its ERC. If not then maybe someone can identify it. It seems to be awful light in weight compared to other wood I've worked with.
Its probably ERC. I have seen some ERC with 1/8th inch rings(only one or 2 rings were that thick) and it did grow fast.
It often has a pinkish color, not as dark as you'd expect. It sometimes has little white sapwood-like spots in it.
I have a polished piece I was going to make tip overlays from. I will post pics tonight, along with some of my glass points.
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Offline Joec123able

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Re: How to ? ERC with no sapwood
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2013, 06:19:52 pm »
Quote from: Fred Arnold on June 30, 2013, 04:34:02 pm
Blackhawk, I'm leaning towards the rawhide backed longbow maybe 68" NTN. I've got plenty of short osage to sinew back so don't feel the need to shorten a longer stave. I appreciate your input and will post for more help when I get stated.



Looks like ERC to me I don't think growth ring size determines what kinda wood it is. I think that sounds like a good idea Fred
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