Author Topic: Black locust d bow help?  (Read 8977 times)

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Offline DLH

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Re: Black locust d bow help?
« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2013, 09:40:12 am »
I have a heat gun and I think I know how heating the twist out would be set up. How would you do that with steam? Thanks everyone just been wanting to take my time and learn/do it right.

Offline hedgeapple

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Re: Black locust d bow help?
« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2013, 01:41:26 pm »
When I heat straighten a prop twist, I clamp the handle in a vice, go out the limb to the first of the twist, wrap a piece of leather over the limb about 3-4" out from where I want to straighten it.  Then I hang a large pipe wrench over the leather.  I hang a weight from the end of the pipe wrench.  Set up a "stop block" system under the weight to prevent the weight from twisting the limb to much.  I use a milk crate, and blocks of wood to stop the weight from pulling the limb too far.  Also, the heating will pull the limb down as well as twisting it.  You can put a brace under the limb to prevent this.  Once everything is set up I heat the area I want to straighten, SLOWLY.  When it bends a little passed straight I put blocks and shims under the weight to prevent them from twisting the limb any farther. Then wait until it is completely cooled, 2 to 3 hours minimum, a half day or longer is better.

I then re-clamp the limb in the straight area and move on out the limb doing the same process.

After one limb is done, I do the other limb.  When the stave is straight I wait at least 3 days for the limb to rehydrate/stabilize before I work on it any more.
Dave   Richmond, KY
26" draw

Offline twisted hickory

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Re: Black locust d bow help?
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2013, 10:54:15 pm »
I have made one BL bow (it failed at a pin knot cause I accidentally dry fired it). And the second one is in the works. I really put the heat to both of them and the BL seems to take it fine. I took out about that much twist and had 3/4 inch string alignment issues. If that was mine I  would put together a jig and grab a wrench and a milk jug of water.
Nice work so far
Greg.

Offline TRACY

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Re: Black locust d bow help?
« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2013, 11:05:23 pm »
Daniel, I have a steam box that fits over a pot of water on a fish fryer burner that will hold a couple staves. It takes a little time but it would have allowed me to steam once and clamp to the caul instead of heating specific areas and manipulating. Have to be quick with the clamps when steaming and have everything thing laid out and ready. Maybe I can bring my setup sometime if we all get together. I would stick with your gun if that is what you have, it will do the job. I'm with slimbob in that prop twist is not a deal breaker and will make a shooter
It is what it is - make the most of it!    PN500956

Offline DLH

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Re: Black locust d bow help?
« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2013, 11:32:23 pm »
Daniel, I have a steam box that fits over a pot of water on a fish fryer burner that will hold a couple staves. It takes a little time but it would have allowed me to steam once and clamp to the caul instead of heating specific areas and manipulating. Have to be quick with the clamps when steaming and have everything thing laid out and ready. Maybe I can bring my setup sometime if we all get together. I would stick with your gun if that is what you have, it will do the job. I'm with slimbob in that prop twist is not a deal breaker and will make a shooter

I would love to take you up on that offer if we all get together this summer Tracy that sounds like a great idea to do it all in one steaming instead of multi heat gun sessions. I think I have seen a steam set up close to what you are describing over on PP? When clamping to the caul do you have to take the twist out by hand? Whats your caul like something similar to what Clint had at Dave's I believe it was fiberglass angle "iron"?

Offline hedgeapple

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Re: Black locust d bow help?
« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2013, 03:20:15 am »
Daniel, I've only worked with steam a couple of times.  Everyone develops a work pattern that works for them.  Tracy is correct you can steam the stave, BUT you have to quick with the clamping process.  I think I remember PatB saying you have about 15 seconds to get it clamped.  My limited experience say that's real close, 30 seconds maybe, 60 seconds and you're wasting your time.  If I had a bunch of the hand squeeze type clamps instead of the screw down C-clamps, I might do more steaming.  But, I just can't work fast enough to get the clamps on the stave.  And you'll really need to put some shims under parts of the limb to raise the lower side of the twist.  I just can't work that fast.

Here's a third way to remove you prop AND induce reflex all at the same time.  This "might" be the best way to the job because it will do both at the same time.  You can use you heat. There's no time clock on the clamping.  You can straighten string alignment. And it's probably faster than the pipe wrench process.  It does require you building a caul.  I some times think I spend more time building tools, form and cauls than I do making bows.

Buy two 2x6 six feet long and a 1x6, six feet long.  Mark the one 2x6 the way you want the reflex to be.  There are several build-alongs on making cauls.  Determine the length of bows that you're most likely to build. I mostly build 58" to 62" bows. So, I made my cauls 60" long.  I like a 3" reflex.  More than that it's difficult for me to do the early tillering.  Less than 2" is not enough.  Others will have there own thoughts and preferences. I'm just stating what works for me at the moment.

Layout one 2x6 with the reflex you want and cut it out.  A bandsaw is best, but it can be done with a jigsaw. Mark down from the top curve 1 1/2".  Cut out the bottom arch.  Now you have a 1 1/2 by 1 1/2 arc.  Use it to layout out your arc on the second 2x6.  Cut the second 2x6.  Match them together. Glue and screw them together.  Drill pilot holes so they don't split on you. 

Now you need to sand them smooth with no twists or dips on the top.  Remember, you're going to be clamping your stave to them.  If there is a dip or a twist in the top arc you'll have that same dip and twist in your stave.  A belt sander is great and fast, but also great is quickly making a dip or twist.  A rasp, sanding block and scraper can also be used.

Now you have an 1 1/2" deep by 3" wide arc. Lay it on the 1x6 and mark the 1x6.  Cut out that arc. Now measure down 1 1/2 from the top of the arc on the 1 x 6.  Lay the 1 1/2 x 3" arc on the line you just marked.  Screw and glue them together.  What you now have is a form with a 1 1/2 by 3" arc attached to a 1/6 with and 1 1/2 backing above that arc.

You're now ready to clamp down, straighten and untwist your stave.  Reduce your stave to floor tillered.  The less amount of wood you have to heat correct the better.  Some might even take it to a full brace.  Clamp the handle in the middle and on both ends of the handle section.  The handle CAN'T move right or left or you will end up with one limb taking more reflex than the other limb.  I know ;)

If you just clamp the limb flat against the caul, you're more than likely going to still end up with some prop twist do to spring back after you unclamp it.  I like to go 20% more than I need to allow for the spring back.  So, you'll need to put shims under the stave in key places to create this addition correction.  Also, if you need to align the string you can do that by clamping the stave to the backboard 1x6. 

If you're doing  string alignment and prop twist correction at the same time, you'll find that you'll need to loosen some clamps to allow the limb to move because you're clamping the stave horizonally and vertically at the same time.

Once you  get the stave clamped heat slowly.  Keep the gun 3 to 4 inches above the stave.  Don't rush the process or you'll either not get enough  heat to make the corrections  or you'll scorch the wood.  Do one section at a time starting at the handle.  I do about 3 to 4 inches on one side of the handle then do the  other side of the handle.  I keep alternating this way until I get to the tips.

Plan for about an hour with the heat gun in your hand.  Leave it on the caul at least over night.  Wait at least 3 days for the wood to stabilize before working.  So, it might as well stay on the caul that long anyhow.
Dave   Richmond, KY
26" draw

Offline Pappy

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Re: Black locust d bow help?
« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2013, 07:29:49 am »
Glad you typed all that Hedge,I use a form and reflex/take out twist and make any alignment corrections all at once,I steam wood if it is green or only a year
or so old but older wood I heat bend. Unlike a lot on here, I can't stand prop twist in a bow,it is to easy to take out in most cases so I figure why leave it,I will say it really don't matter as long as it ant bad enough that the string will pop off. Hard to tell from the pictures but looks like you sanded the top off of the pin knots, you done a great job working over them and then looks like you sanded them off. :-\ If so I would probably back with rawhide or something,I have done that before and usually have issues if not right off over time.Good looking stave and should make a good shooter.  :)
   Pappy
Clarksville,Tennessee
TwinOaks Bowhunters
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Offline DLH

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Re: Black locust d bow help?
« Reply #37 on: June 14, 2013, 06:46:05 pm »
Heat gun it is then I don't think I will be quick enough and I could take my time with the heat gun. Thanks for the very informative post Dave I will have to re read it to fully digest everything and get me a good caul built. Pappy that's what I was afraid of the entire time I thought I might have sanded the pin knots too much. :-[ So I guess my next step will be getting to floor tiller and making a caul to remove the twist do you recommend adding reflex? The reason I ask is because I didn't want to make it too complicated being it will be my second stave bow after I finish the other one if it doesn't break.

Thanks,

Daniel

Offline DLH

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Re: Black locust d bow help?
« Reply #38 on: June 16, 2013, 01:55:33 am »
That trick with the hatchet worked like a charm few whacks and it popped right off. I don't think I will try doing it again because like you said Clint it did tear out quite a bit I'm afraid of tearing out too much if I give it a second go. Do I need to be extra careful with tear out around that knot with my rasp? Here is what it looked like.







I got a lot of the belly meat off as you can see in this last picture but I will pick back up on it with the rasp.  I thought they would be back since they shipped in the middle of the week but guess it takes awhile for them to get from California to Kentucky.