ELB or EWB?

[outcaste]

[ All longbows were a minimum length of a man’s height and were to be drawn to at least 32 inches. Yew of various cross sections was the preferred wood for all self bows since the stone age..The present so-called “English Long Bow”, because it is stiff at middle and ends, can be expected to break at that draw length. The bow in Cardiff doesn’t sound like MR. I believe all MR bows had round conical tips to hold horn side-nocks.
                                                Cheers,
                                                  Erik
[/quote



Hi Erik,

Just to say that this bow in the National Museum of Wales is currently on loan from the Royal Armouries and is from the Mary Rose.

This bow is quite short but I guess could be called 'man sized', as are those bows which were 69ins or so in length (tip to tip and therefore shorter nock to nock). Also of note is the belly which is completely flat in sections (though overall is a shallow elliptical profile with a 'sharp' edge

Cheers,
Alistair

[Yeomanbowman]

Huh,  I thought an EWB was a type of ELB. Whows WTH I know.

I would consider that you were correct. The term “English Long Bow” was applied to the bows used in Victorian England, perhaps with the belief that the English longbows they read about were always made like theirs. The Mary Rose bows demonstrated otherwise, so the new term “Warbow" was invented. It is really ignorant to fail to recognize that the MR bows were indeed longbows and they were English. Mediaeval longbows of higher quality than military issue were also made with lighter draw weights for hunting or sport shooting, or even war. We can see examples in Denmark, Ireland and Germany. All longbows were a minimum length of a man’s height and were to be drawn to at least 32 inches. Yew of various cross sections was the preferred wood for all self bows since the stone age..The present so-called “English Long Bow”, because it is stiff at middle and ends, can be expected to break at that draw length. The bow in Cardiff doesn’t sound like MR. I believe all MR bows had round conical tips to hold horn side-nocks.
                                                Cheers,
                                                  Erik

Hello Eric,

The minimum dimension of a 32" arrow would be at odds with the vast majority of existing medieval and Tudor arrows which, as you know, were under this length.  If it were a new comer to the warbow I would have ignored the longer draw estimate but as it’s you I’m interested as to what's your theory for the longer length, please? 
If I can add to what has been said of the Cardiff bow, I spoke with the Medieval Curator and he confirmed that it was indeed a MR bow on loan from the Tower.

Jeremy

[adb]

Erik,

Haven't you been to the MR museum in Portsmouth? I thought you went there last year? Anyway, as I think you know, most of the arrows are about 30"- 31" from valley of nock to base of head.

[bow-toxo]

Hi Jeremy,

    I didn’t mean the minimum dimension of the arrow, I meant the draw length of  which the longbow should be capable. The main advantage of a longbow is having the mass to effectively shoot a longer heavier arrow. My impression was that all still existing longbows found with accompanying arrows , whether including the Roman period Danish finds or not,  the “vast majority” were  close to that length, long enough to draw to the ear, as adb  points out, most being 30-31”. Which arrows did you have in mind ?           

  My ‘theory’ is partly from known dimensions, partly from mediaeval advice for longbow arrow length of ten fists, which for me, makes a 31 ˝ “ arrow, and some people have bigger fists. It is mentioned that some archers shorten their arrows in order to better draw to the barbs or shoulder of the arrowhead. There was one exception. The fifth act of Edward v prescribed for Irishmen who used short bows and arrows, bows equal to the shooter’s height  and arrows of  “three fourths of the standard” [yard].

  So apparently the Cardiff bow was not made for horn nocks ? I was told that remains of a MR arrow 37” long had been found. Does anyone have info on that ?

[Yeomanbowman]

Hi Erik,

Another factor that needs consideration is whether the arrows were all drawn to the head.  Not necessarily medieval/Tudor Anglo Welsh ones either.  For instance Otzi had a finished arrow of 33 1/2" despite his diminutive height of 5' 5".  I'm sure the Mary Rose arrow arrows were designed to be fully drawn as Ascham’s advise a practical experiment would confirm.  I believe that one of the Nydam ship arrows was 37".  Perhaps for a fire arrows like its Mary Rose counterpart?  Regarding the Medieval arrow length I was refering to, the only complete one is just under 29" and some of the Tudor MR arrows being as short as 27" with most around 30", as you say.