hhb withstand grain violoation?

[Baldmoose]

Hey all, i was just curious as to if Hophornbeam "Ironwood" could withstand grain violation and to what extent...  I have a couple hhb staves and the grain totally runs off about 3/4 down.   

Thanks for taking the time to reply!

[footfootfoot]

I've been wondering about that too. I wonder how much it has to do with two factors, the first being the number of growth rings per inch. Would a piece of wood with 40 rings per inch tolerate ring violations better or worse than another piece with only 4 rings per inch?

The second question relates to the ultimate draw weight of the bow. There must be a graph that shows the relationship between draw weight and ultimate failure of a given piece of wood. I imagine there is a growing gap in ratio between the sample cross section size / draw weight and point of elastic failure. I'm going to check my books.

[Pat B]

If the stave was split out there should be no runoffs.

[Baldmoose]

pat B - this was a stave i got from a friend of mine.  Pretty sure he kerfed it.
footfootfoot - not sure if were talking about the same thing... im talking about grain violations and i think your talking about ring violations.

[Marc St Louis]

It should not be a problem.  Ring violations on the other hand it will not tolerate.  Don't forget that as you taper your limbs you automatically get grain violations

[ojibwatbowyer]

Just giver Mike I'm getting more this August, and this time it wont be rushed! And if its really bad and fails before you shoot an arrow out of it, i'll bring ya one in June 

[George Tsoukalas]

I am confused as to what you are referring to, Baldmoose. Ring violations are when you cut through a growth ring. That's never good. When laying out a bow follow the lateral grain tip to tip when drawing the center line. It's never good not to do that. If the stave was split it will do so along these lines anyway. If the stave was band sawed you'll have to do it by eye. See my site. Jawge
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/layout.html

[druid]

I always avoid to violate ring but often violate grain- with no problem. I tested spliting hornbeam with wedges- very hard work. Also never had braking because grain violating.

[crooketarrow]

  Foot thats totally backwards when it comes to grain run off. No bow of any weight will with stand run offs but the bigger the rings. They are less likely a splinter will raise. The greater the weight of the bow the higher chance of a splinter riseing. Grain volations and run offs are 2 totally different things. Grain volations are ok with HB. 
    When you get the back of the bow you want to barnish it before you start tillering if it just gain volation., Tiller your bow then sand the back to stain,stain, then rebarnish the back. You can't stain through barnishing. I've built bows with grain volations no problems if you not sure barnish the back.
  Pats right staves should be split this avoilds grain run off.

[Baldmoose]

Thank you for all the replies! very helpful!   cant wait to get started on it... gotta finish a couple on the go already though!