Author Topic: Artemis - Osage selfbow  (Read 7932 times)

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Offline Dazv

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Re: Artemis - Osage selfbow
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2011, 04:18:52 pm »
Thanks guys.  I've had the bow strung for up to 4 hours at a time and I've shot over 1,000 arrows through it now and when you unstring it it snaps right back straight.  The string has never been above the handle after unstringing.  It's a great piece of wood.

I've killed 6 deer this year and 5 last year with 43# or under.  I shot through 4 or 5 of them.  On this buck my BH lodged in the far side and remained in the deer.  I've never hunted with heavy bows.  We (the Twin Oaks Crew) have a buddy that hunts with a 38# osage and he generally kills 6-8 deer per season. A good sharp broadhead in the vitals and they won't go far.

wow now they are some light bows whats the lightest bow you have hunted with???

Offline Ranger B

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Re: Artemis - Osage selfbow
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2011, 04:29:28 pm »
I have a 38# osage that I have killed dozens of squirrels with but the lightest bow I deer hunt with is 40# because that is the law here in TN.  Ron LeClair's wife hunts with 35# I think and she's killed quite a few deer.  I have killed at least 20 deer with under 45#.

Offline Ifrit617

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Re: Artemis - Osage selfbow
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2011, 04:37:29 pm »
Man I really like that bow... Great job... One question though... Have you ever had a problem with the high performance string cutting through the tips? 

Offline Ranger B

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Re: Artemis - Osage selfbow
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2011, 04:59:41 pm »
No.  I have only tried it with tip overlays but I know Gary Davis is shooting an osage with no tip overlays and a no stretch string and has no problems.  Gary is also shooting much heavier weight.  Pappy can also talk to this.  He knows a lot of others that have been doing it for a while and he has gone to these strings as well.  I've shot D-10 and TS-1 with no issues.

Offline Dazv

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Re: Artemis - Osage selfbow
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2011, 06:12:06 pm »
That is a really light bow. 35lbs What do you think the lightest self bow is that could take a deer? also what do you think the lightest sinew backed bow could be??? (i know it all depends on how the bow is made etc) what would your rough guess be??? thanks so much.

Offline Ranger B

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Re: Artemis - Osage selfbow
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2011, 08:14:10 pm »
You're question is technically a bit more complicated than it appears on the surface.  While a 40# bow is a 40# bow is a 40# bow, not all 40# bows perform alike.  There are countless variables in laminate bows much less selfbows that affect speed and penetration, but here is what I would tell you.

I saw a study that said it takes 7# of pressure to penetrate the body cavity of a whitetail deer so if you took a sharp blade and put it between ribs then applied 7# of pressure then you would penetrate the body.  So now you have to account for ribs, shoulder, organs and do you want an exit wound?  I know that a lot of deer have been killed with 30 - 35# bows. If  you hit them right it will do the job, but what I do not know the answer to is how many ran off wounded.  Truthfully, our community has a hard enough time just getting the arrow in the vitals much less using a bow that requires precise arrow placement.  Now, I hope a bunch of folks don't get offended by that statement, but I'm being honest.  I'm simply a realist and I've shot with a lot of people.  So to answer the question how light?  Well....very light...if everything is perfect, but there are compromises. 

Speed also reduces deer reaction time.  If you keep the shots at 10 yards then it's not a big deal but a deer at 15 - 25 yards can move significantly if they hear the bow.  A 35# selfbow with a light arrow might get you in the 140s (FPS).  The light arrow with then reduce your penetration.  A slow fast arrow hits like a hammer and drives deep, but you have to keep the shots close.  Yes, I've seen the studies that show fast light arrows penetrating deep.  This is an endless debate but I will tell you that the deer I've shot with moderate to heavy arrows get penetrated deeper.  I think 9 - 11 gpp is optimal for speed and weight.

Now, performance depends on a lot of things.  I have a 38# Osage bow and a 40# hackberry bow.  The 38# osage is lighter in gross weight at a given draw length but shoots faster.  The speed is in the woods cast or speed at which the limbs return from anchor to brace.  This is where high performance strings can help you a bit if the wood can handle it, but keep in mind that the minimal stretch string will perform better on better quality wood.  You get more energy into the arrow.  So if you have a good sinew backed bow it could increase cast but it will increase weight.  Sinew gives you the elasticity which in effect pulls the limbs back forward but it creates resistance which makes the bow higher in weight.  A key advantage to sinew is that it can effectively eliminate the stress to the wood.

When you draw a bow you compress the belly and stretch the back.  If this is a true statement, and we know it is, then there is a point in the wood that is neutral.  It is neither being compressed nor stretched.  When you put sinew on the bow you move that neutral point out towards the back of the bow.  Ultimately, you can take the stress off the wood and put it on the sinew which is tremendously strong.  That is perhaps the best benefit of the sinew.

Okay, I've rambled on and on.  The bottom line is that in archery everything is a compromise.  You never optimize everything.  You trade speed for weight and cast for comfort.  The key is finding what optimizes the most for your particular situation.  I know I didn't directly answer your question but as I said in the beginning - it's complicated.


Offline gstoneberg

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Re: Artemis - Osage selfbow
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2011, 09:08:34 pm »
... A slow fast arrow hits like a hammer and drives deep ...

I'm pretty sure you mean slow heavy arrow, but I sure got tickled with that. ;D ;D ;D  I've had lots of slow arrows, but not a slow fast one. ;)

You won't get any argument from me about slow and heavy getting more penetration.  I've only killed a few deer with self bows, but many many deer with glass recurves and longbows.  Heavy is better.

Good discussion.

George
St Paul, TX

Offline Dazv

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Re: Artemis - Osage selfbow
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2011, 09:19:37 pm »
that all makes sense, 7# is not much at all.

Offline Ranger B

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Re: Artemis - Osage selfbow
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2011, 09:31:35 pm »
sorry - yes, slow heavy,   fast light.

Offline Pat B

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Re: Artemis - Osage selfbow
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2011, 09:34:16 pm »
Beautiful bow Jimmy. The tiller is as good as it gets. Very nice buck also. I guess the proof is in the pudding!  ;)
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

youngbowyer

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Re: Artemis - Osage selfbow
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2011, 12:07:23 am »
Beautiful bow and a really nice buck

Offline soy

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Re: Artemis - Osage selfbow
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2011, 06:41:36 am »
Imho you should have named it AWSOME ...another sweet looking stick ...my most sincere complements ;)   btw how many deer are u able to get? Sounds like a good season  :laugh:
« Last Edit: November 24, 2011, 06:49:49 am by soy »
Is this bow making a sickness? or the cure...

Offline dwardo

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Re: Artemis - Osage selfbow
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2011, 07:08:33 am »
Lovely looking bow.

Offline Ranger B

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Re: Artemis - Osage selfbow
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2011, 07:34:26 am »
We can kill three bucks in a season and 3 does per day all year.