Elm, might be trouble?

[Scott E]

Hi guys, I just got a Elm board where the grain is straight as an arrow. The guy at the lumber yard could not tell me what type of Elm it is. I have not made an Elm bow, and was wondering what type of layout would suit this wood. I am planning on making it 64-66"   55#@27 backed with hickory. Any help and suggestions would be great. And from what I've seen of Elm failures, I will post a picture if it blows up

[JW_Halverson]

I've never worked elm, so take what I say with a 12 lb block of salt.  But I would think if your grain orientation is good, a little hickory backing would put the Good Bowkeeping Seal of Approval on the deal. 

Post pics of the build whether she blows or not!

Good luck,
John

[Scott E]

Will do!

[NTD]

I think hickory and elm would be one very sweet combo.

[Scott E]

It seems like a good combo, elm might be a tillering challenge. Does anybody have an idea of width and limb design? Would 1 1/2" or 1 3/4" work for a width, mid liimb tapering to 1/2" tips?

[NTD]

I don't understand the elm failures myself.  I think it's an incredibly tough wood.  There have been a lot of elm success too!  Recently, myself, patB, PeteC, Timo, Halfeye, just to name a few have made great bows with elm. 

With a hickory back and a straight grained elm board I think you'd have yourself one hell of a bow.  I would think 2" wide at 66" would be just fine and I wouldn't go any wider than 1/2" tips even narrower if you can.

[Scott E]

Thank you NTD I appreciate the help, I would have made it a good bit narrower. I'm going to get er' glued up today with TB 3.

[Timo]

I'm surprised that you can buy elm at a lumber yard? Never heard of such around these parts.

Count yourself lucky.

[DarkSoul]

Elm is a really tension strong wood. So is hickory. If the grain in the elm is "as straight as an arrow", I really think you don't need that hickory backing. In fact, glueing up two lams may add more hassle and risk to the bow building process than if you use only one piece of elm. Laminating requires time, glue and experience. I'm just not sure if your efforts will pay off with a straight piece of elm...
However, if you want to pull the bow into a bit of reflex, or if the grain is questionable, a backing (be it hickory or even elm) will do the job

[NTD]

Thank you NTD I appreciate the help, I would have made it a good bit narrower. I'm going to get er' glued up today with TB 3.

You probably could go narrower but better to start off a little wide and remove width if you can, in my opinion.

[PeteC]

Hey Scott.That sounds like a very good combo to me as well.Not knowing which specie you have can  make a difference, however,if it is one of the dense elms,it really likes being heat treated. So far,let me knock on wood, , I have yet to have an elm bow fail,where, I have had heat- treated hickory fracture in compression a few times. Hickory,on the other hand, is super in tension ,so when combined with the elm, should yield a bow with little to no set,if tillered properly. JMHO  God Bless

[Scott E]

Timo, they also carry ash, hickory, hard maple, black walnut to name a few. I picked out a nice 1"x2"x6' hickory board and had them rip me 3 great backings for $7 + $3 to cut it.
DarkSoul, I want to add a little reflex, also insurance. I have made a few lam bows, and the hickory is soo much easier than the bamboo I've been using. But I didn't think of an unbacked elm, I will try it on the next one.
NTD, thats a good call, I might go a little narrower after its looking good.
PeteC, maybe I will toast the belly a little and see what happens.
Thanks for the help guys!

[NTD]

Scott if you glued it up already with tbIII don't heat treat the belly.  You'll delam it if you do.  If you want to toast the elm do it before you glue it up.  It'll probably be a good idea to floor tiller the elm core before you heat treat it, it's also a good idea to bring it to floor tiller if your are going to relfex it in glue up.

[crooketarrow]

   It would be really hard to tell the difference in elm by the grain I would think. Maybe if you used elm alot,I can't. But never tryed or had to always cut the tree so I knew the type. I 've never built a board bow in my life but from what I read and heard and my building stave bows. If you do'nt have grain run offs you should'nt need to back it. And you could end up with more trouble with the glue up. Ofcorse it's exspearance thats up to you to deside.

[Scott E]

I was tillering the elm and I got a yellow spot that showed up, well the deeper I went, it turned into a little brown hole 1/32 x 1/4 with the grain. I scraped out what ever was pithy and filled with epoxy. What was weird was there was no discoloration on either side of the board to indicate anything like that.