Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Papa Matt on October 15, 2008, 12:43:54 pm
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Ok, all you Osage masters, I need your help.
I recently acquired some osage that had blown down in the windstorm when it came through Columbus, Indiana as a result of the hurricane. As I was splitting, debarking and sealing my osage the other day I noticed there were some grubbs that had bored holes into the backs of some of my staves, so I left the staves plenty wide, some up to 5 inches across, in order to be able to cut the worm holes out and snake around them. Is this possible? I know I have to chase a ring on the back, and not cut into it as far as depth, but now what about side to side, is it ok to take a chunk out of my stave for having to cut around a worm hole. These holes were big and deep, a couple of them are 3/8" wide by 1.5" deep. I actually cut one of the grubs into with my draw knife and his blood squirted out and stained the back of the stave where he was sitting. If I can get to a ring under the hole, that's fine of course, but if the hole is too deep and I can't take a ring down that far, can I cut it out? Other than these holes, it's beautful. Thanks for whatever advice you may be able to give!
~~Papa Matt
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I don't think you'll be able to snake around them because that may be too much grain violation but i have never worked with osage. I do know that pics would be useful then hopefully some guys with osage experience will drop in.
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I know, I wish I could post pics. I just don't have that capability yet.
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Dont think it will work unless you have very straight grain. But perhaps a backing would make it safe.
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Matt, You will probably have to go below the damage. The problem with the grubs is they don't go straight down into the wood but snake through out. Remove the bark and sapwood, split the staves out and pour alcohol or acetone into the grub holes to kill them. Be sure to seal the back and ends to prevent checking. You will just have to give it your best shot and see if you have any good bow wood left. Remember, it doesn't take much osage to make a decent bow. ;) Pat
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Thanks for all the advice guys.
I was sort of thinking along the same lines, but wanted some other opinions. Since I just cut it and put it away to dry this weekend, it will be at least a few months before I get to messing with it again. I sealed the back and ends.
Thanks again,
Papa Matt
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I've got plenty of staves like that too Matt. I'm just waiting to get around to working them. Some of the staves are character side to side, so maybe I can get around some holes that way or else I'll try to chase a ring down past them. I would'nt think you could get away with violating the lateral grain very much as already said.
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I also got ahold of an osage stave that was full of grub holes. They were about the size of an ash borer hole. I stuck a pipe cleaner in a couple of them to see how deep they went. Some of them took almost a whole pipe cleaner before popping back out somewhere else. I removed all the sapwood but the bugs had gone deep into the heartwood. Thw worst part of it was I paid 50 bucks for the stave and the bark on it looked untouched. Live and learn.
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I've made a couple osage bows with grub holes in them - I just made them slightly wider at the hole and dripped super glue inside the hole
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Interesting ideas, fellers. I believe I will go to the furthest ring down that I can and then if the hole still exists, do like Mattco said and fill it and leave it slightly wider and maybe wrap it with sinew. Thanks for all the input.
October, man that's foul. Especially to have paid good money for it. Did you do anything with them or just toss and burn? The bark on these wasn't in too good of shape, in fact it was like that of a dead tree. Some even had moss growing on it like a fallen log. But that heartwood is still good-except for the grubs. It's nice and hard, excellent color, still feels moist, every characteristic of good heartwood. That's why I was looking for advice, cause I would really hate to junk one of these staves out, just because of a wormhole.
~~Papa Matt
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You could cut them short and make billets from them, if the holes work out that way. Like Pat B said, it don't take much Osage to make a bow.
John
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If you have to keep the holes, fill them with glue and packed sawdust, PACKED IN. If the hole remains, the wood surrounding the hole wants to split and crack and collapse into the hole.
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I made my huntting bow out of osage billets, that had grub damage just took them down past the damaged wood.Made a plains style bow.45 pound at 26 inch the limbs are 1/2to 5/8 thick and the handle area is about 3/4 like it was stated earlier it does'nt take much Osage.
Dennis
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Looking on the bright side, bugs don't usually like the heartwood. You could probably go down into heartwood, hopefully maybe just a ring or two.
possum
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I have done several like that,I try and go below the damage but some times they are to deep.
I will fill them with sawdust and super glue and the back with rawhide and haven't had any
problems. Not sure if you don't back them.They are not like a knot hole ,where the grain grows through them,they are like a drill hole and I feel sure if they are in the working area of the limb they would splinter up if not backed or at least rapped.
Pappy
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Try a dutchman's plug like RP and Pappy said. Massey refers to them in his books more for knots but it would work for wood wasp grub holes also and then back it. I try to go below the damage if this happens and pick a ring from there. Need to do what Pat said and kill the grubs that are alive, they'll continue to munch on the heartwood or sapwood( they aren't picky) if left alone. Good luck.
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Already a lot of good advice! I think I'd try a combination of things to get some bows out of your collection. How much of this wood are you talking about?
If possible try to lay the bow out with the worm holes in a mostly nonbending section like the handle or upper fades. You might try sorting through the wood and cutting some of your staves into billets where half of a stave may be free of holes. Combine two good billets with a splice in the handle when laying out your bow.
We have like Pappy said filled holes with sawdust and glue with good results. Can wrap the area also with sinew as further protection. Also can sinew the back of the bow or rawhide in combination with filling the holes with glue/sawdust. This should keep a splinter from lifting up at the hole.
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I ended up with a decent but smallish belly split with no holes and the rest I got the heck out of my garage just in case any bugs where still in there. I was really worried about infesting my other wood with these critters. Also sprayed some pesticide on my other staves which I hate to do but I don't have alot of wood and don't want to loose any of it.
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I've had such terrible luck with bugs in my whitewood staves that pesticide has become standard. Don't know how many I've peeled and sealed right away just to come back later and find holes :(. Osage hasn't seemed to matter as long as ya get the bark and sapwood of in a descent amount of time.
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Killer advice and much appreciated, brothers!
Greg, I made a small haul the other weekend and came out with 11 staves- but how many I will actually be able to get a bow from is another question. I peeled and sealed about 6, and by then my hands were starting to cramp up on me, from all the lifting, chain-sawing, splitting, drawknifing, besides all the other physical work I had done on Sat and Sun. I couldn't do anymore so I just sealed the ends on the other smaller pieces and hope for the best. It's not that I couldn't afford to toss one or two into the fire, but this is osage, who wants to do that??? Plus the worm holes are in the longes and prettiest staves.
I'm gonna go down as far a ring as I can, and shorten as far as I can, and if the hole is still there, I'll fill with glue and sawdust and then wrap tight with sinew. I'm really not looking to back any of it.
~~Papa Matt
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I made a very servicable osage bow from a stave that had many worm holes. I chased a ring below much of the damage and filled the remaining holes with a mixture of sawdust and superglue and then backed it with rawhide. Last I heard, it's still holding together nicely.