Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Young Viking on September 19, 2008, 02:45:34 am
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Hallo friends,
I am very new to this site and blogging in general, so please bare with me...
I have been learning ho to shoot my recurve bow for about 6 months so far and thanks to this site ame inspired to build my own bow for the first time!
So I ask you experts out there, to help my build a bow that the Vikings of Norway would have used to hunt small game! i hunt Rabbit, squirrel, also turkey in the spring!
I live in Connecticut, USA now if that would help you know what types of trees I have available ( alot of nice woods near me too(. So obtaining the wood isn't an issue!)
Hope to hear back soon!
Danke!
-Young Viking
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Hi sent you a PM....
And Welcome to PA i hope you enjoy it as much as i have so far!!!!!
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I don't really know about the design of Viking bows, but there are a bunch of people on here who can probably point you in the right direction. As far as wood you can probably find some hickory, elm, or black locust in your area. Other types as well I'm sure, but those are the ones I'm familiar with which should be pretty easy to come by. Good luck and Welcome.
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Welcome Y V I can't help you on this one but looks like you are in good hands already. :)
Pappy
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Hmmm, interesting. Somehow I never pictured Vikings with bows, just swords and clubs. I guess it is logical that they would have developed bows. I'm guessing that after raiding what is now Great Briton and Turkey and Spain, and the North American continent they would have had the opportunity to meld their bow designs and come up with something that would have worked in several different sorts of situations.
Piper
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Welcome Young Viking. We have a member in Finland that may have the info you are looking for. The rest of us can help you with tillering and finishes. Pat
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Indeed, I believe most of us will be ignorant on this subject, but we are anxious to see what you come up with, I assure you ;D
~~Papa Matt
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Here's a page I found that has some info on bows and arrows in viking history.
http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/manufacturing/text/viking_bow.htm
~~Papa Matt
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Guten tag meiner Freund! :)
Wie geht es dir?
Btw, welcome!
Here is general topic on what you are interested in: http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/5129/t/Viking-Hedeby-bows.html?page=1 (http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/5129/t/Viking-Hedeby-bows.html?page=1)
I can find more if needed ;)
Alex
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I've read somewhere that the Norsemen would shoot arrows up into the air at the other side just as the shield walls hit each other.
So you had to choose; keep your shield down to take on the guy running at you and get hit in the head with arrows or bring the shield up to stop the arrows and take an axe to the body......
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Greetings Young Viking! Viking longbows are very much like english longbows. Flat back, rounded belly and as tall as the archer. This design has been used in Europe for at least 5,000 years. Viking longbows do not have horn tips and are normally not as powerful as english warbows. The Regia Anglorum website has some interesting information on Viking archery. Sorry for any multiple posts. Had some trouble posting this.
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There's lots of physical evidence for the use of longbows in Northern Europe during the time of the Vikings. They were usually made of yew, but there are also examples of elm. Here's a good thread.
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,2861.45.html
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as has been mentioned, vikings did use basically longbows, but a simplified version to what is often pictured. at the same time, things like the holmegaard would have been in their lineage, and it is possible that there were some remnants of creative bowyery still alive. finally, the lapplanders made up lots of nomadic tribes that would wander the arctic circle, and it is possible that they did not used the longbow style. a common argument for longbows is given in that they are easily constructed and standardized-good for arming a fighting force. tribes, families, artisans, etc would not have had that stipulation. at the same time, the wood options there were somewhat limited to things like elm, yew, and birch type trees.
viking "empires" at different times included bits of north america, africa, asia, europe-they have found period danish money in trade by the people of the sahara. the vikings would have, as mentioned, used many bows of different types. those found now that we can attribute to having characteristic norse designs will likely be almost all longbows-but that doesnt mean when pillaging pocketbooks and women they would have turned down fine shooting weapons. SOM
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Welcome Viking, My friend Claude just got back from Denmark. He came back with a lot of pictures from the museums there. Among them was a whole section of Viking bows thrown in the Bogs for ceremonial purposes. The bogs and burial mounds are where most of the artifacts have come from. Almost all the bows in the museums are long bow style except for a few short bows that are either Asian or Roman influenced. I'll see if he will email me the pictures and I will post them.
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WOW. This is quite possibly the greatest site ever. Thank you all so much for the speedy and great responses! I wish i had alot of knowledge to share with you all. But my inspiration is that one day, hopefully someone will ask me to teach them after I learn from you all! I will try to respond to you all individually, im simply drained of energy now though, just split the next seasons firewood, found some red oak near our woods too :o! off to a good start now!
I will try my hardest to learn more and put together my experience on a blog soon! and im sure ill be pestering you all with many question along the way! haha
I suppose my goal is to build a longbow then! 6'1'' tall(my height)!! This will be very fun!
Good folk here!
Dankeschoen!!!!!!
-Young Viking
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Hallo friends,
I
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There was a complete Viking bow found in Balinderry in Ireland and one found at Hedeby in Germany along with several broken pieces. They were made of yew or elm, which is also mentioned in the histories. Unlike any other bows, the tips are heat bent toward the shooter. Cross sections are from a nearly D shaped oval to a more flattened shape, especially at the tips. The strings had a loop at the upper end and were tied off at the lower tip, A side nock was cut in at the upper limb and there was no wrapping at the handgrip. I made two from elm and one from hickory. The elm soon developed a lot of string follow. I have submitted an illustrated article to Primitive Archer magazine and I think they mean to print it but I don't know when. It also shows how the arrows were.
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There are few fids of Viking bows, barlinderry and Hedeby (Heithabu) Generally they are yew longbows (withb one example beeing elm). But they dont havwe the hornn ocks of the english longbows. Instead they have trumpet shaped nocks and deflexed tips, a sollution to make the ends of really heavy bows hold before hornnocks came about. Strengths of bows estimated abowe 100#
For hunting I would use the more slender Nydam version from 300AD, estimated at 50-70#, longbows of yew with sidenocks and slender outer limbs.
Bowwoods in Sweden at the time would be
Yew
Elm
Ash
Hophornbeam
Rowan
Hazel
Oak
to name a few
the saami would at the same time use laminates
birch or goat willow with a belly of pine or spruce (compression wood)
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Hi there young vikng!
I started a thread about viking bows some time ago.
Now that I have looked into them more, it seems that the wood preferred was indeed Yew, but since it was not that well available in norway they did use other materials such as elm and other good whitewoods.
Then again the Vikings of Norway did do a lot of conquests to the west. Especially to the countries now known as the United Kingdon and Ireland. So they did receive great amounts of Yew from those parts. They also did a lot of trading with the other vikings (mainly from Denmark's area), so that was another source of Yew.
The bows that they used were as the other members already said mainly similar to English longbows. The draw weight was almost in every cases over 70# so that the same bows could be used for war and hunting. The bellys of the bows were rounded and the backs were somewhat flat. This only applies to the bows built from yew though. If the bow was from Elm or other whitewoods the belly would have been flat.
The bows were mainly drawn to the chest and not the ear or jaw. this is one of the characteristics that separates the bows from English long bows. The draw would also have been shorter than in ELBs. Almost all Viking bows that have been found are about 72' or longer. most of the bows found were used for war, so the descriptions for small game bows are hard to tell. but as I already said the main assumption is that the same bows were used in hunting and in warfare.
'Vikings were fishermen and farmers more that hunters, so the food mainly consisted of fish, crops and cattle, but hunting also took place.
The Vikings were more "international" than one would assume, so they were also influenced by surrounding nations and people. One good example about this is a Saami bow that was found from the remains of a viking settlement in norway. Firs it was assumed that the Vikings were building such bows for hunting, but later on it was proven that the bow was of a Saami origin brought in by Vikings that made a trip to Saami land further north and east.
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http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,2115.0.html and here is the link to that topic of mine.
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Welcome young viking!
The Haithabu viking bow is a very strong bow. An archaologist said it was not for practice. (hes an archer, too).
The tips of these bows are bended towards the belly.
Hope it helps what I attached.Sorry about making handstand!
Regards Uwe
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Great thread! ;D
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Hi there young vikng!
The bows that they used were as the other members already said mainly similar to English longbows. The draw weight was almost in every cases over 70# so that the same bows could be used for war and hunting. The bellys of the bows were rounded and the backs were somewhat flat. This only applies to the bows built from yew though. If the bow was from Elm or other whitewoods the belly would have been flat.
The bows were mainly drawn to the chest and not the ear or jaw. this is one of the characteristics that separates the bows from English long bows. The draw would also have been shorter than in ELBs. Almost all Viking bows that have been found are about 72' or longer. most of the bows found were used for war, so the descriptions for small game bows are hard to tell.
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I am interested to know where thos information comes from. I know of only two complete Viking bows, the one from Haithabu, the back of which is not 'somewhat flat', as we see in the cross section in reply#19, and the one from Balinderry that is not 'rounded ln the belly'. The broken pieces found were more of a flattened oval. Please share information on any others. I would also be very interested to know the source information for the type and length of draw.
Some other posts thought the Nydam bows were Viking. Sorry, they are definitely Roman period, at least 400 years before the Vikings.
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my information comes from a finnish primitivebow forum. If I were to link it to you, you probably would not understand the text, but here is the link of what I found from there.
The draw lenght is just an assumption, but I remember reding a few Sagas that said that and archer (viking) pulled the string to his chest and aimed at the enemy.
then besides these nymand bows a bow was found from Ballinderry and it was dated to be about 900 years old. This bow was from yew and it had a rounded belly and oval somewhat flat back. it was 185 cm long (74") and clearly over 70#. some of the nymand bows that the Danish Vikings buried in a swamp in religious purposes were yew also with a round belly and a longbow design.
A piece of a logbow that was from yew was found from laatokanlinna (laatokka's castle) nowardays situated in western Russia near the finnish border. This bow had to be left there by the Varnagian vikings from Swedish land. The Varnagians travelled as far as to Baghdad.
a whole bow made from yew was found from Hedeby, southern Jyllan. the bow was (4, 0 x 3, 2 cm) at the widest spot and at the narrowest spot it was (3, 0 x 1, 8 cm), the tips were slightly recurved. the bow was 192 cm long (76.8").
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About those Nymand bows: the Roman empirum did not reach the areas of Denmark or Nydam. The vikings did live there before the viking age (800-1100). so even if the time is not between 800 and 1100 the settlements and burial customs there point to early vikings.
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The roman founds at Nydam were given to the saxon soldiers, who were fighting for Rome and brought it up to the North.
Remember: the viking age historically begins with the agreesion of Lindisfarne abbey in Ireland in the early 9th cent. (807 around) by the vikings.
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The draw lenght is just an assumption, but I remember reding a few Sagas that said that and archer (viking) pulled the string to his chest and aimed at the enemy.
then besides these nymand bows a bow was found from Ballinderry and it was dated to be about 900 years old. This bow was from yew and it had a rounded belly and oval somewhat flat back. it was 185 cm long (74") and clearly over 70#. some of the nymand bows that the Danish Vikings buried in a swamp in religious purposes were yew also with a round belly and a longbow design.
A piece of a logbow that was from yew was found from laatokanlinna (laatokka's castle) nowardays situated in western Russia near the finnish border. This bow had to be left there by the Varnagian vikings from Swedish land. The Varnagians travelled as far as to Baghdad.
a whole bow made from yew was found from Hedeby, southern Jyllan. the bow was (4, 0 x 3, 2 cm) at the widest spot and at the narrowest spot it was (3, 0 x 1, 8 cm), the tips were slightly recurved. the bow was 192 cm long (76.8").
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i guess you didn't read my post about the Hedeby {Haithabu] and Balinderry or look at reply #19. Those two examples are not enough to say what most Viking bows were like especially when the limited information you have is not quite correct. I would very much like to know what sagas mention a draw to the chest which could be a long draw depending on what part of the chest.
I would like to know more about the bow from laatokkanlinna.
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the viking age historically begins with the agreesion of Lindisfarne abbey in Ireland in the early 9th cent. (807 around) by the vikings.
Lindisfarne Abbey is on the North East Coast of England (Northumbria) it was sacked by the 'Viking's' (Danish) in June A.D 793.Or are you talking of a different Abbey? The Abbey (Lindisfarne) was founded by a Irishman (St Aidan) in A.D630 but it's no were near Ireland!!
(http://www.haggerstoncastlecaravan.co.uk/images/lindisfarne.jpg)
http://public.gettysburg.edu/~cfee/MedievalNorthAtlantic/Lindisfarne/index.html
The Gospels.I hope this link doesnt brake the no religion rule?I'm not posting this because of the content of the words but for the beauty of the book! and they call it the dark age,tut.........
http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/themes/euromanuscripts/lindisfarne.html
(http://gntmoore.net/images/LindisfarneGospel.jpg)
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Bow-Toxo
If you are not Nordic, then it is obvious, or if you are Nordic by blood and are not told the history since your birth then it is also quite obvious. I have many medals, and pendants from super long ago(From Norway) They picture Ullr, our god of the hunt, and of Archery, he always draws his bow to his chest, if that is a cultural symbol, that would mean that an overwhelming number of our bows must also do just that. Just my observation. its funny given my height and stature, it is actually quite comfortable, and somehow accurate for me to use a longbow drawn to my chest, maybe its jsut natural for Vikings to draw like that, evolution baby! woo!! lol ;D
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The Nydam bows are not Viking, they would be considered early Vendel. However, the ships found at the same site are defenetly a predecessor of later Viking ships, thus from the culture that became the vikings later. The Nydam bows are basically just a long yew bow with one sidenock. They are predecessors to the later Vikings bows. However, as a few hundred years passed, it seems like bows were made stronger (the two finds are defenetly bulkier, probably 100+#). That is probably the reason for the bulkier nocks, as soft yew wouldnt stand that strong a bow without reinforcement of either horn nocks wich came later, or more material. Deflexing the tips can be for the same reason.
If making a bow for hunting, say 50#-70#, I would not recommend the tip configuration of the viking bows, as that would leave you with heavy outer limbs, resulting in poorer cast and mor handshock. If instead assuming the knowledge for making a good weaker weapon did not dissapear in a few hundred years, you will get a better performing bow by making a Nydam bow.
If making a yew bow without hornnocks designed for a long draw and say 120#, I would make a Heithabu replika. However, even though I am of viking heritage, modern life has left me to weak to have full controll of a 120# bow, I have enough trouble just pulling and shooting one.
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Bow.toxo: Unfortunately I have no further information about the bof from laatokanlinna. I was just sharing information I know about.
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haha sounds like youre a burly norweigan viking to me- im half norweigan and half greek. anaways, i just wanted to add in the hommleguard was widely used throughout northern europe, if you're longbows, god forebid, just dont o the trick, hommleguard style bows are some of the most primitave in the books. they are made from small diameter trees, the middle of the tree becoming the bow's crowned back. i'd l0ve to say i knew alot about the viking era, but the peoples of PA have said everything i think there ws to say. good luck- post a picture or two f it turns out well. -jimmy ;D
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Bow-Toxo
If you are not Nordic, then it is obvious, or if you are Nordic by blood and are not told the history since your birth then it is also quite obvious. I have many medals, and pendants from super long ago(From Norway) They picture Ullr, our god of the hunt, and of Archery, he always draws his bow to his chest, if that is a cultural symbol, that would mean that an overwhelming number of our bows must also do just that. Just my observation. its funny given my height and stature, it is actually quite comfortable, and somehow accurate for me to use a longbow drawn to my chest, maybe its jsut natural for Vikings to draw like that, evolution baby! woo!! lol ;D
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I doubt that people's blood gives them histoeical knowledge. Here in Canada, police taught Indian kids to paddle canoes because they didn't have a clue. I make authentic Celtic and Viking jewellery and have studied Viking culture for 50 years without seeing those medals and pendants. There are ancient carvings and pictures of men drawing to the chest when using short bows but the known Viking bows are longbows that are made long to shoot long arrows that were drawn to the ear in medieval times..
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The short bows bows are even designed on the tapestry of Bayeux. It wonders, why are these bows made so short on the tapestry and why are they as long as the archer in reall? Any idea?
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Artist's interpretation probably.The Bayeux tapestry was commisioned by Bishop Odo of Bayeux (Normandy),there's no record of the Embroidery until 1476 so it's not established who done the work' but it was most likely made in Normandy.Who's to say how many of the Norman ladies who done the sowing knew what the Bows were supposed to look like?
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Who says the tapestry was embroidered by Norman ladies? Perhaps nuns, yes, but most likely monks. And monks were most likely well acquainted with archery....as many monasteries were built with various defensive features designed for archers.
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No one,pure speculation on my part!
Didnt know Norman Monk's sold Tapestry's,sorry.
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HA ! Young Viking.... Good to have you here. It seems you have been given enough info to get you started on this archery road. Be warned however that this road can lead to many more roads,you'll be making your own arrows and gear and maybe clothes and you'll have wood shavings in your house and.......those that share this road can be out-spoken and opinionated. Ha !....It's a good road. Look forward to your post. Make some shavings ! Frank
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The short bows bows are even designed on the tapestry of Bayeux. It wonders, why are these bows made so short on the tapestry and why are they as long as the archer in reall? Any idea?
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Easy. Both long bows and short bows [usually for hunting only] were used by the same groups of people at the same time.
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Who says the tapestry was embroidered by Norman ladies? Perhaps nuns, yes, but most likely monks. And monks were most likely well acquainted with archery....as many monasteries were built with various defensive features designed for archers.
I think Loki is right, actually. I have read that the tapestry was in fact done by women, and that the quality was far inferior, too, but can't recall where I read it. Monks doing embroidery seems somehow wrong to me, though if you can point this out, I'd be interested in learning more. Embroidery was strictly a woman's job back in the 15th century.
http://www.regia.org/SaxonArchery.htm
That is a link to an article on the Regia site on bows during Anglo Saxon times. It might interest folks. and does discuss different kinds of bows.
Dane
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Hey Dane! ;D
The Tapestry was likely made soon after the battle,probably in the 1070's but there isnt any written record of it until the 15CE when it was mentioned in Bayeux's Cathedrial treasury.I still find it hard to imagine monk's doing the needle work though,11CE or 15CE.
P.S i must get an email to you!
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In the spirit of beating a dead horse, let me continue by posting my reasons for suspecting the Tapestry was made by monks:
1. The work was commissioned by a Bishop (big hint here...I could rest my argument on this alone).
2. During the time period in question, literacy was not common...and there are embroidered words on the tapestry. Guess who were usually the only literate people around? Yep, monks.
3. Monks were quite familiar with fabric and sewing. They not only mended their own clothing, they raised the sheep, and , I suspect, spun wool, operated looms, and used dyes.
4. The Tapestry is not a tapestry...it is a cloth scroll.
5. Monks were scribes...it was their job (among other things) to record important events. Here's the alternative: "Hey, lets get the ladies' sewing club to record the King's conquest, the monks don't have a clue about these kinds of things." Somehow, I don't think so. ;D
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Patrick, this is fun, and is intended in the spirit of the thing.
Here is a quote from the dreaded Wikipedia:
Since the earliest known written reference to the tapestry in a 1476 inventory of Bayeux Cathedral, its origins have been the subject of much speculation and controversy.
French legend maintained the tapestry was commissioned and created by Queen Matilda, William the Conqueror's wife, and her ladies-in-waiting. Indeed, in France it is occasionally known as "La Tapisserie de la Reine Mathilde" (Tapestry of Queen Matilda). However, scholarly analysis in the 20th century shows it probably was commissioned by William's half brother, Bishop Odo. The reasons for the Odo commission theory include: 1) three of the bishop's followers mentioned in Domesday Book appear on the tapestry; 2) it was found in Bayeux Cathedral, built by Odo; and 3) it may have been commissioned at the same time as the cathedral's construction in the 1070s, possibly completed by 1077 in time for display on the cathedral's dedication.
Assuming Odo commissioned the tapestry, it was probably designed and constructed in England by Anglo-Saxon artists given that Odo's main power base was in Kent, the Latin text contains hints of Anglo Saxon, other embroideries originate from England at this time, and the vegetable dyes can be found in cloth traditionally woven there.[1] [2] [3] Assuming this was the case, the actual physical work of stitching was most likely undertaken by skilled seamsters. Anglo-Saxon needlework, or Opus Anglicanum was famous across Europe.
I can't imagine the monks saying "guys, Vespers in ten minutes, then come see the fabulous new silk embrodary threads that came in today." :) Remember, the Church was mega-powerful and wealthy, so they could job it out to whoever they wanted. Bishops were as powerful as kings back when the Tapestry was created.
And time and again, copiests literally copied whatever was put in front of them. Each iteration usually created some errors, compounded over time. Someone doesnt have to read to copy letters such as you see on the tapestry, and the cartoons (or whatever the patterns are called) were simply executed carefully by whoever was charged with the actual embroidery.
And, remember that ladies were expected to learn these fine arts as part of a ladie's education, as well as music and such. They may well have been literate, too.
Your turn :)
Dane
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Lord:
"My Ladies, a commission of embroidery has been assigned to you. It is a depiction of the King's conquest."
Lady:
"My Lord, we doth protest. Wars are icky."
Monk:
"My Lord...I'll do it for free. ;D"
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Okay, you win. That kind of logic is hard to argue against.
My wife is always telling me "If we women were in charge, there would be no war." And I reply that war and opening jars is men's work. Besides, I'd not want a chick next to me in combat. I'd tell her cover me while I throw this granade, and she would refuse. Her nail polish is still drying. :)
I really do think women did the actual embroidery work. And women were known to hang out in monastaries, after all. :)
In any case, I dont think you can trust literarlly a somewhat crude iconographic work like the Tapestry to tell you anything about what kinds of bows William and Harald's men used. Normans, though of Norse ancestry, were not Vikings. And the Anglo Saxons they were fighting were of Germanic heritage.
They also had terrible haircuts all around.
Dane
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In any case, I don't think you can trust literarlly a somewhat crude iconographic work like the Tapestry to tell you anything about what kinds of bows William and Harald's men used.
Makes sense.
(I wonder if the haircuts would have been different if women were in charge? ;))
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Last word from me: Of course not, they wanted the men to look dorky, of course. We tend to do fine on our own, though in that respect. When was the last time you were right? :)
Dane
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1. The work was commissioned by a Bishop (big hint here...I could rest my argument on this alone).
LOL,did Monk's build his palace?or make his jewels?
Pax
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I have just taken a look at the Bayeux`s tapestry. Some years ago I bought a minimized printing of it in the British Museum in London. All scenes are to be seen and there are all those weapons in "correct size". There seem to be used different bows indeed and so we get other dimensions of bows, too. I see recurved bows as well as longbow styles. But the length is the same. the archers draw the bows and they have a length from the heads down to the knees.
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LOL,did Monk's build his palace?or make his jewels?
Did monks write his music? Write his bibles? His prayers? His financial statements? His history? Yes.
Relevance, Loki, relevance.
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Bow-Toxo....
You make some funny statements, a persons blood does surely give them a historical knowledge, IF they are raised with some culture. How dare you compare me to Indian children!!! We Vikings will NEVER need a foreigner to tell us about our peoples past. Furthermore, the Indians have been nearly destroyed, Vikings, we are strong and doing just fine, the only thing that got in our way is that pathetic cross and wretched christian dogs who came to Norway and launched a bloody crusade to convert FREE people into useless, sheepish, soul-less fools. So you see, it is useless to argue about the past. We must build our future with knowledge of our un-tainted past(pre-christian times).
This is why I am looking for people to respond to me who only have positive things to say, not to debate, to tell. If you don't know then please don't question where someone got the information, unless you want to read it yourself, don't sound like a pompous know it all. Be a friend, not a braggart...
I wish to not argue. I only want people to post things about Viking bows(no talk of tapestries or medals on the new page). I will start A NEW VIKING BOW PAGE.
This time, only people who are making or have made the bows will post on it(please)
I think maybe I might just focus on making only viking bows, as it would be natural and logical for me to master one thing at a time(or try)...haha
I feel this page was a success though, you guys helped me alot and got me into this website even more!
I learned all the basics I need to start my own project(building a viking bow) So, thank you all again!
And believe me, I have toooons more questions to ask!
-Dankeschoen!
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Bow-Toxo....
I wish to not argue. I only want people to post things about Viking bows(no talk of tapestries or medals on the new page). I will start A NEW VIKING BOW PAGE.
This time, only people who are making or have made the bows will post on it(please)
I think maybe I might just focus on making only viking bows, as it would be natural and logical for me to master one thing at a time(or try)...haha
-Dankeschoen!
=I have made three. Good luck !
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Young Viking, how come you said thank you in German if you are a Viking?
Do you know even what a Viking was? Hint: it wasnt a race, but to declare something specific, based upon economic and social realities of a time and place. Do you know about the history of a vary diverse peoples who we now call Vikings? Do you know the Sagas, or will you read them?
Some advice, if I can. This is one of the most generous places you can go for help in your bow making quest. People here want to help, and bringing up the Tapestry and other aspects of this history is part of it. But it seems you kind of went into a tizzy here. Relax and enjoy the place, or you will alienate folks really fast.
I have started one Viking bow, based upon the Hedeby finds, but put it aside a while back. Do I quaify to be part of YOUR thread now?
Hail Thor.
Dane
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Dane,
I am German, Norwegian and a little English.... strangely all of viking anscestory..Its hard to believe anyone nowadays has just one nationality(ok Finland......what about russians? they visited you before :o), its nearly impossible. perhaps you just might not know. people move around...ehh rape and pillage i mean! >:D..... stuff happens.... ::)
Have you heard of the Hiddensee area in Northern Germany? It has many islands, I guess some had fortress towns on them started by vikings and germanic folk... my Oma and Opa are from Rostok, Germany(really close to that area)...on my fathers side (and before that the family came from Rijukan, Norway.)
I have a medal of Ullr, god of the hunt from that region of Hiddensee, im not sure how old it is though, maybe from like Prussian era?
As for the english, on my mothers side. And my Grandmum and Grandfather are from Sandy England, now my grandmum's mother was from Norway, and im not actually sure where, a shame, we think maybe Bergen....and my grandfathers family was living in England for awhile so they are Norman by heritage....
Theres the vikingness summed up for you all....
O yeah and we(my family) ALL SAIL, keep massive gardens, and fish often too. so we keep the traditions alive, brings us all together you know.
Now... ARE YOU JUST ANOTHER DANE?! hahahaha just kidding M8! My girlfriend is Danish, sweetest girl i'v ever met(listens to more heavy metal than i do too)..I want to move to Finland with her!
Now that i have fully introduced myself and my dead relatives too, hahaha.....ehem...
NEXT THREAD = VIKING BOWS 2!
And lets try to make it very specific, for example id love it(and im sure everyone else would too)...if...
Someone who has built a certain type of Viking bow would maybe try and document their work along the way and post it with pictures..wow, that would be so sweet!
I really want to build along with someone, so if anyone would want to guide me... we could go cut the tree in the same week, and then you could walk me through the whole process.... if someone has the skill to do that....oo jaa! 5 stars (double horns >:D!!!) To thy name!
Dankeschoen!!!! ;D!!!!
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o yeah, and im really sorry if i offended anyone...(Bow-Toxo) Dane said I went into a "Tizzy".... :-[
apologies to all..
you guys are the greatest, I just was in a bad mood maybe because i haven't had too much free time to start my bow!!!!
Asatru is teaching me to be more peaceful, here I am apologising.....I have read some of the sagas, yes...Odin traveled far so many sons could trace their anscestory to him...
NEW THREAD STARTING SOON!!!
VIKING BOWS 2!!!
Blessed Be.
Hail Thor!
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.and my grandfathers family was living in England for awhile so they are Norman by heritage
Is your Grandfather's family a part of the English Aristocracy then? I suggest you take a look at the recent Oxford University DNA study.
The Study show's that England's DNA make up is a mash of People's :)
South West England =Brythonic (No they WERENT Celts!)
Middle England and South East= Saxon
Noth East England=Saxon and Danish but mostly Danish(Does that make me a Viking :)?)
Lowland Scotland=Saxon and Brythonic
Highland Scotland and the western Isles=Brythonic and Norwegian (More Vikings!)
Ireland= Brythonic and Norwegian
South Wales=Saxon
North Wales= Brythonic
Note that Roman and Norman invaders made little to no mark's on the English make up.The only people who are directly related to the Normans are the Arcane Aristocratic 'toff's'who can trace their ancestors back to William the Conqueror and his rabble of Mercenery's.
My home town was given to Robert De Bruc by William 'The bastard' in the108o's (It took the Conqueror ten years to control the North and he did it by Genocide!!!),he later fell out with the rulers of England so moved further North to Scotland,he was the great Grandfather of the famous Scottish King Robert d'Bruce.
PS.like Dane said,Viking is a activity NOT a race of People,anyone could 'go' Viking!
So what type of Bow are you trying to make?
Funny :)
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I am afraid that Loki is right, Young Viking. You are no more Viking than I am. A Viking was not simply someone from Norway, Denmark, or Sweden. Otherwise, everyone during that time period from those countries would have been a Viking. To go “a-Viking” was to go on a voyage of piracy, mixed in trade, exploration, colonization, etc.
Usually, second and subsequent sons would go on raiding voyages, as they could not inherit land in a society that was nearly 100% agricultural, and hence would sail off to plunder churches, burn towns, enslave the young for sale at slave markets, and do the other stuff Vikings were known for doing.
And to just have German or English in your family tree doesn’t cut it. I too have those in my family tree.
You should be aware that the Nazis in the 1920s and 1930s tried to create all sorts of myths about the indomitable Norse, using runes for letters, having quasi-religious, sometimes orgiastic rallies based on their weird brand of Viking pseudo-history and occultism. Germans and Vikings just don’t mix, and to do that now invokes something quite evil.
All that being said, my understanding is that the Norse were not a bow culture, preferring spear and sword in battle, so perhaps that is why there are so few examples of bows used by Vikings. It was probably more popular as a hunting weapon. The long or D bow was most likely the kind of bow used by the Norse, as is also true all across Europe at that time. If you have made a yew longbow, odds are you have made a bow a Viking warrior would have been happy to shoot a fleeing monk in the back with.
Dane
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Good gods you guys wont stop talking about my Vikingness..
loki,
not to sound liek a know-it-all. But my English family is actually from William the conquerers line, and yes we have records and have passed our bloodlines history down through the generations..........my family are ALL SAILORS, FISHERMEN OR FARMERS, also carpenters.....
I have sailed through the Caribbean Islands(my uncle is a captain), through the north sea, the north atlantic, every shore jsut about in New England......
o yeah and we have ALL been in the military of some sort(every man so far)........
I am not oblivious to all these facts, I know who I am, where I come from and where I'll go. I appreciate all your knowledge though, and am in agreement.. ;D
If you would like to talk about our heritage and our vikingness then send me a personal message...
I am a lumberjack.......have a huge red beard, long dirty blond hair, (6'1'' tall) green/blue eyes...... would you like to challenge me to an axe throwing competition, iv won 3 so far....... Viking enough yet? good gods, let it be. let it be. hahaha
and for ***** sake, I know viking isnt a race..... JED ER STANDIG VIKING..
Now I am officially done with this page!!
the new rule says; no talking about non bow related stuff, I am going to do a little more homework on the subject and figure out what type of bow(easiest) is to build and make the NEW THREAD: VIKING BOWS 2..
hope to see you all there!!
Good hunting!
-Dankeschoen!
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Man.. Finally someone had the guts to shout that historical thing aloud. Finland has also had it's share of battles with the hounds of Christian Europe. Actually Finnish tribes (or actually tribes and people living on Finland's territory) were the last ones to be settled into Christianity by sword (in Europe that is).
I have to say that if a persons bloodline goes to the time between 700-1000 and locates in norway or denmark or other places the vikings were settled, there is a great possibility that the bloodline and blood of that person is Viking blood. After all, the vikings dominated the north western Europe at that time.
And especially if the bloodline has been examined and followed thus telling and pointing the signs to being of Viking ancestry, I believe it holds true.
Even I have some Viking blood in my veins, or so we believe. My mothers side of the familyrtee dates back to the region of Trondheim norway as far as to the 9th. century.
Young Viking: I know what you are talking about, but as I have seen it, the Native Americans are more traditional than the majority of people who have viking ancestors. Norway for example is one of the most Christian countries in Europe. The vikings as almost all the other people in northern Europe crumbled under the pressure of the Christian sword. If not in battle, in beliefs and traditions. Christianity was mainly brought to vikings by vikings them selves. This because with a religion such as Christianity it is easier to rule a great bunch of people, and this was noticed by some of the Viking kings.And everybody knows, that Vikings made war with other Vikings very frequently. it was in these wars that the still Pagan Vikings lost to the greater number of Christian "vikings" or should I say Europeans.
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The idea that viking bows were drawn to the chest is older idea based on medieval iconography, which hovever stylistically depicts archers so, that their head is visible. That is something we call canon and the artists of the time did obeyed it.
English bows are also drawn to the chest or shoulder when shooting for distance, but the "anchor" changes as the need dictates.
If you read heimskringla youll find out that the bow mentioned very frequently is drawn to chest and ear which would support that the viking or early medieval style wasnt so primitive as we previously thought.
(This makes even more sense, when we realise that the bow are meant for long draw, heavy weight).
Altough typically heavier than earlier germanic longbows, viking bows with thick tips arent very good shooters. They have very low width taper, which makes easy to get heavy weight, but also carry lots of mass towards the tips. They are sort of oxen, if you want animal to compare.
If you start reconstructing the arrows, youlll easy arrive at arrows in 50-70 gram range, something which wont fly very well from anything less than 100#.
English bows arent actually much different from viking, the english archery synthethic in composition, carried further both saxon and later scandinavian influence. But the english, once they entered the arms race found out that such bow wven if you make it stronger and stronger wont be shooting very far, due to heavy limbs and the law of dimnishing return and thus narrowed the tips and used the horn nocks as refinement of older weapon - this and the battle tactics is their biggest achievemnt.
Jaro
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another post is probably not necessary-it may take a little sifting but people are posting opinions on viking archery and bows within this thread. the problem is that there is not a ton to say, as jaro pointed out-and as the first few threads said-archery for the vikings pretty much meant straightstave, man tall bows of things more like white woods than osage or ipe. norse archery is a little more diverse as this would include for instance holemgaard type bows and not just those archery artifacts proven to be of "viking" origin. i would be interested to hear anything from anyone who has built a replica-or been inspired by-a specifically viking or norse bow.
as far as anyone's vikingness is concerned, that is a pretty silly thing to start a new thread because of. as was pointed, genetic heritage does not transfer factual knowledge. if it did subsequent generations of mice would be able to complete the maze in continuously shorter times, all native americans could survive on their own in the wild, and all those from the regions around arabia would be mathematicians or doctors. having a sense of culture may make on more interested in skills from their "past" which may translate into a shorter learning curve for that skill, but that isn't due to the genetics at all. if it did there wouldn't be any reason to ask about viking bows-the viking descendant should just "know", somehow, what was done. SOM
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SOM - I would be extremelly carefull about including holmegaard type of bows, since they are out of epoque entirelly. And that the bow we today call homegaard is actually 1 single neolithic find. (There is actually number of similary worked down neolithic bows like holmegaard, but none with the same degree of refinement or finish.) There are scandinavian bows which arent longbow stickbows, e.g. fenno ugrian two-wood laminates and some sinewed bows, but they do not bellong into the viking culture as such, even though have been used within viking sphere of influence. The Fin mercenary archers might have used them, but taking all things in consideration - why should they? Longbow of the time shoots about the same as these two wood bows, which are mass drivers, but poor in speed and think of all the moisture on ships.
If you want diversity in genuine viking longbows take a look at waterford bows, which vary in construction alot, some of them being rather similar to hedaby, some other quite different.
Jaro
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true, and it is a good point to drive home if i didnt make it clearly. i tried to distinguish between "viking bows"-the bows that would have been used when viking era norsemen raided-and nordic, or maybe scandanavian would be better, bows-a larger set of archery examples that encompasses what is known from a given region irregardless of time frame. if that was buried in the other post, that is the line i would suggest drawing as it does make for interesting topic-how have bow designs changed within a region over time, if at all? it can be applied to anywhere archery is known. for instance, i seem to remember hearing that pre-longbow era the welch bows were actually very strong and short. if true it is a different picture for the birth of archery in an area of britain than one may initially guess. SOM
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-archery for the vikings pretty much meant straightstave, man tall bows of things more like white woods than osage or ipe. norse archery is a little more diverse as this would include for instance holemgaard type bows and not just those archery artifacts proven to be of "viking" origin. i would be interested to hear anything from anyone who has built a replica-or been inspired by-a specifically viking or norse bow.
SOM
I mentionrd in a previous post that I had made bows of Viking type. Let's forget the Holmgaard bow unless we want to do Stone Age re-enactment. As previously posted [with clear photos] There are two complete viking bows and several broken ends. These are from the time of Harald Hardrade and the last Viking attack on England. They are quite enough to go by. The wood used in Viking bows was yew and elm. We know this.
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Son Of Massey
I like how you think! That is the logic I needed to help me along this project. I am actually about to make a "family tree" of bows of Norway. And one for German and English bows as well. Great thinking! Dankeschoen!!!
I will scan my work and try to post it when I'm done with it! I bet you all will be able to help alot and maybe correct me on some things. This will be very interesting!
-Young Viking
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My ancestry is predominatly english/german(Angle/Saxon/Jute)but I have an interest in Viking/Nordic history as well so I'm looking forward to seeing what information uncover. Good luck!