Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: ricochet on August 26, 2008, 09:26:47 pm
-
WITH BEING A PRIMITIVE FORUM,IS SYNTHETIC STRING MATERIALS AN ACCECTABLE SUBJECT? IF NOT HERE GOES ANYWAY,WHATS THE BEST MATERIAL TO USE FOR A PRIMITIVE ,LONGBOW,FLATBOW? I HAVE SEEN IN DIFFERENT CATALOGS DACRON D-50 AND FAST FLIGHT. THE CATALOGS SAY TO CHECK WITH YOUR BOWYER ABOUT FAST FLIGHT. I WANT A FLEMISH TWIST STRING SHOULD I US THE D-50 OR IS THERE SOME BETTER. I HAVE SEEN IN PA GUT TWIST AND SINEW MADE STRINGS ARE THESE BETTER OR JUST MORE PRIMITIVE? WILL WELCOME ALL SUGGESTIONS AND COMMITS. THANKS YA'LL BRIAN
-
ya people one here use them all the time,notme casue i have yet to learn make my own strings ;)
tim
-
Brian, it's hard to beat B-50 dacron for an all-around everyday string. Haven't tried the D-50, and I'm a bit paranoid about fastflight, though several people on here use it with no problems. If I'm making a replica bow, or one that I want to stay completely primitive on, sinew, rawhide, or gut would be the way to go. Some people like linen, and it would be more appropriate for an English longbow replica. For everyday shooting, though, it's hard to beat B-50. Cheap, strong, durable, easy to use. It can be a bit stretchy at first on high-poundage bows. I usually make Flemish strings with a braided loop on top and a timber hitch tied on the bottom.
-
I think Ted Fry coined the phrase, "classical archery", for wood bow archery in the era just before fiberglass, when modern tools, finishes, and strings were coming about, and arrows were being made from manufactured dowels. That description fits my style better than "primitive", which I reserve for wooden bows with natural finishes, glues, strings, and arrows processed from the same. In any case, my favorite bowstring material is Dynaflight 97.
Unlike linen, which has a short life and is prone to breakage, and B-50, which creeps and requires frequent twisting and retuning, D-97 has a very low stretch, is extremely durable, stable, and is quite affordable in the superstring realm. No fuss, no muss. Those with just one bow and a broader interest in primitive things may well be tolerant of the upkeep required with primitive string materials. I'm not. I've used D-97 on all my bows (50-70# typically) for 8 yrs without any detriment. In fact, I feel B-50, with it's tendency to stretch, is much more apt to do damage during early, low brace tillering, when the bow is braced, the string stretches, and the angle of the string becomes so acute that it tends to split the limb along its length.
The trouble in using D-97 with some glass laminated bows is that if the limb tips are very thin and not reinforced with an overlay, they could shear without the stretchy cushion of B-50. This is not an issue with selfbows that generally have much thicker limb tips and are stronger.
-
Hi Adam :)
Linen does not stretch much, yes? So, by using say D-97 or even other low stretch string material, wouldn't this be equivalent to using a linen string that is just more long lasting?
I really don't like B-50 as it stretches a lot compared to my linen and hemp strings I have made. I always wondered about the other string materials, but shied away from them when I hear people say they can break your bow.
Alex
-
I have seen the use of plastic nocks on this website, and I have a feeling the people who used them did not gather materials, to chemically make a plastic to pour into a stone mold. Therefore: I think synthetic string material is justifiable. If this is your first string, I have the perfect plan for you. Buy the B-50. Hard to go wrong, costs less than ten bucks.
The technigue is known as the Marc St. Louis. I was never gonna make a string, cause I was obviously intimadated by the flemish twist. All you need is a knife, B-50, two nails, and a handy not mounted vice. You put drive the nails into your work bench, at least 6 inches longer than the string, or more. Wrap around the nails, however many strands needed, always an even number so the two cut ends will be on the same side. On the good end, tie a bowline knot. On the end where the two strings are cut, go up 12 inches and loosely clamp the strings together. Divide the all the loops and ends into three groups. waxem to keep them together. Braid to the end. Tie a knot at the end so the braids do not come undone. Use the bowyers knot on this end. or the timber hitch. One thing, you gotta serve the center of the string.
That was how I made my first two strings, but then I learned, and use, the flemish twist. Hopefully others could see this, and go for makin theire own strings.
Sorry Mr. Marc, if i explained it wrong.
...or you could just go with the flemish twist.
-
I've never noticed all this undue stretchiness and creep with B-50 that everyone talks about. I've got bows with B-50 strings that have been shot a couple thousand times with no twisting or adjustment. I usually notice a small amount of stretch when the bow is first strung with a new string, after twisting it up once to adjust, I never touch it again until it's worn out.
-
If you have or can get a copy of Primitive Archer Feb/Mar 2008, it has an article on page 21 showing how to make a "Mark St Louis string". I believe he also posted it on this forum about the time the mag came out.
-
B-50 works great. Yeah, it will stretch for a very small time, then it stops. Never did have trouble with having to re-adjust a string. I've never, ever had one split.
Butch
-
where do you buy it at?
ive been to the local craft store,never heard of the stuff,same at the fabric stores. :(
need it fast,cant finish my boo hick r/d bow untill i make a string,and hunting season is fast approaching.
tim
-
You have to get it from a archery supplier......Try threeriversarchery.com
-
Three Rivers is where I usually get mine, too.
-
Man, as far as material I always use artificial sinew to make my own strings. You make the, as thick or thin, and as strong or light as you need. And as long as you don't mistreat them and let them get worn, they never break. And while they are artificial, it does give your bow a slightly more primitive "look" than most other strings of dacron or whatever that you might buy.
~~Papa Matt
-
ya but isnt that just regular old waxed string,what about stretch?
-
Like Hillbilly, I don't see the severe stretch that some talk about with B-50. Initially it stretches a very small amount and then no more. If it's still stretching then I would make sure that it was put together properly and is not coming apart.
Sailordad, there is a dvd that you can purchase through 3rivers archery called "Doing the Twist " that is very helpful if you're a visual learner like myself.
Tracy
-
I use mostly FF on hunting bows. A FF string is pretty well indestructible and you can make them much lighter than a dacron string. Most of the time I use an 8 (for me) or 10 strand ( for customer) string. Even a 70# bow can easily handle an 8 strand string.
-
I think it's important to recognize the difference between stretch and creep. Creep is why you have to adjust your brace height when you first make a string. All material has some creep, and flemish strings may elogate based upon the strands and plys mating more tightly together initially. I don't consider creep to be a very compelling problem regardless of material. Once you exercise it out, either using a braced bow or some other method, generally you are done. Stretch is a measure of the strings' inherent elasticity when loaded. I find elasticity to be very undesirable as it robs cast, exaggerates unecessarily handshock and to some extent limits the practical lowest brace height one can use and avoid interference w/ bow arm. A flemished string with excessive twist may have stretch due to the spring like shape of the individual plys, regardless of the material.
Polyester and dacron, the components of artificial sinew, B500 and B50 materials have more stretch than the more modern materials. Linen I think falls somewhere in the middle, but may exceed some of the modern materials depending upon what you are comparing it to. FastFlight is both a product name and a generic term. In the generic sense it refers to a variety of products made from a combination of modern polymers named Vectran, Specta, Hmpe, Dyneema, et.al.. I think the FastFlight proper material was once 100% Spectra, and is today 100% Dyneema. To be honest is very comfusing as there are a variety of product names for the various raw materials and formulations of these, as well as names for the various bow string materal products composed of these raw materials.
If you google or other search engine the topic, you'll find lots of interesting stuff to read. Most importantly in my view is to try to keep an open mind. Among the things you'll find to read on this topic seems to be an exaggerated inertia to try the newer materials, and in my view an unrealistic fear that lower stretch materials will "break your bow," based upon my experience.
Hillbilly I didn't realize there was any difference until I tried some FF material. Big different IMHO. So much so I have come to detest B50 for ANY purpose, most notably as a tiller string. Just my opinion, for what it's worth and some folks disagree. ;-) Although a spool of FF is more money, it is also twice as much material. I think a B50 string costs about 16 cents to make, FF about 22, same number of strands.
I usually use 15 strands of FF and one wrap of #4 nylon serving to fit 5/16" Bohning index nocks. But you can match your serving material thickness and any number of strands to fit your self, or other, nocks.
-
Sailordad~
Yeah it is just waxed threads of what I believe is essentially the same as B-50 Dacron. But it doesn't stretch hardly at all. In fact, I once had a B-50 dacron string that I had bought from an archery supplier that I put on my 70lb ash shortbow and the bow straightened right up with that string on it. Then I made a string out of artificial sinew wwith the same thickness of the boughten string and it streched it some, but not completely out like it did the boughten string. So I just put a little more twist in it and was ready to go.
I've never had any trouble at all from artificial sinew for bow string. It's all I ever use and the strands are easy to twist up. I've gotten to the point I can make a new string from scratch for a bow upwards of 50# with artificial sinew in 10 minutes while watching Monster Quest at the same time. ::)
~~Matt
-
HILLBILLY I MEANT B-50 NOT-D-50, T ;D ;DHANKS FOR ALL THE HELP AND ADVICE AND I BELEIVE I HAVE THE PA ISSUE WITH MARC'S ARTICLE IN IT. THANKS AGAIN YA'LL
-
Some art. sinew is nylon some is dacron gotta stay away from the nylon, no good for strings....