Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: robbsbass on August 23, 2008, 01:33:22 am
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As usual I'm lkooking for your help,or advise. In one of the books I was reading, it states that a b.l. bow should be backed., with either sinue rawhide or leather. I have a fair amount of fairly thin leather that I could use if you guys agree, and what then is the best glue. Can I use contact cement , or should I use something else.
Robb
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with leather i would use hide glue,but i have never used nothing other than boo as a backing as of yet
tim
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Black locust is very strong in tension so it does not need a backing. It is also the strongest wood in compression in NA but it is brittle so compression fractures(frets, chrysals) can be a problem. Pat
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No backing nessasary if you have chased a ring on the back.
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Seeing that this is my first bow, and I really don't want it to brake, do you think backing it with the leather would hurt, just for the added security or peace of mind, rember this has a little bit of a snake to it and is going to be hard to tiller. One of you guys told me to put it aside and try a simpler bow as my first one, I'm stubborn and really want to try to get it right.
Robb
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Leather isn't the best option. If you really want to back it I would use something lighter in weight like silk. You will get every benefit you would from leather without the weight to steal performance. Use Tight Bond with the silk. Snakey is more tricky, so patience will be your greatest tool. Justin
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Backing is good insurance, if you really think you need it, use rawhide, it will give great protection.
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Just one question Justin, If I use silk will that take me out of the concept of being a primative bow. I'm just asking, you guys know alot more than I do and I respect your opion and teachings.
Robb
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I guess a truely primitive bow would have rawhide or sinew backing. For your first bow you ought to concentrate on proper tiller and the proper use of the tools to get you there. I'd bet this won't be the only bow you will build. You can always learn to be more primitive later. ;D Make a good shooting bow and be proud of it, then go start your next. If your first bow fails, and most do ::) , learn from your mistakes and start another.
With osage, if the rings are decent early/late ratio and you chase a back ring with no violations in it you should not need a backing. Also, if you screw up that nice snaky osage stave you will hate yourself in the morning. >:( There will come a time when you wished you had it back again! ::) I know this for a fact!!! ;) Pat
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thanks Pat.
Robb
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There will come a time when you wished you had it back again! ::) I know this for a fact!!! ;) Pat
Boy isn't that the truth.
Rob, silk may not be a traditional choice, but it is a natural material. Considering the weaker compression strength of BL I was just thinking of a back that wouldn't add more stress to the belly. Justin
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Hey Justin, I just wanted to thankyou for your help. I thought about it and I think I will try to use rawhide. One reason is that it is more traditional and the other reason is,, well to be truthful it will save me some explaining when I show up at a rondevous .One more stupid question, is it better to finish tillering after the rawhide is put on or before, hopefully I won,t have any more questions till I take the final pics to show you guys my first attempt.
Robb
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Put the rawhide on before you tiller it. I would get it to a good floor even tiller and then glue the hide on. Actually, I would leave it unbacked-if it's a good stave and you've followed the grain, you don't really need a backing, just extra weight. Locust is some tough stuff. Out of curiosity, which book did the "locust should always be backed" come from? There are unpteen thousands of unbacked locust bows out there, it's stronger in tension than many of the usual bow woods.
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It's hard to break a black locust bow's back. It doesn't like to splinter. I have a crazy little hatchet bow I made in one day from a dead black locust tree limb. It has grain violations on the back, it is short, crooked, thin, ugly, and shoots great. it's not much thicker than a piece of lath but it's not going to break anytime soon. Be confident you've got good bow wood and trust it to be strong.
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,7878.0.html (http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,7878.0.html)
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Hey Hillbilly,
The book I got my Info. from was The Bent Stick, Please correct me if I've read it wrong, remember I have a head Injury and can't read very well anymore, not an excuse but I do try, t5o do the best I can.
Robb
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Rob~
I think we see what you are trying to do and we can all relate to it. It's your first bow and you want to give it all the protection it can get cause your proud of it and who wouldn't be. You want to protect it so that it will be around and shooting for a long long time. I see insight in that and respect you for it.
Black Locust is a good strong snappy wood and I think you're making a good choice backing it with rawhide. It's "primitive" and not that hard or expensive to do. Get er done and enjoy your bow ol boy.
~~Papa Matt
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I'm on my second year with a b.l. bow that is 66" long, 65 lbs. @ 27". No backing and it is fast and accurate. I love it and would compare it to an osage bow of the same design.
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Thanks Papa Mat, encouragement is what every one needs that is building his or her first bow. So as I have been tillering it I have been pulling it to get the wood used to being pulled, but never to far. Tonight it made that terrible sound,a small crack along the side, I then used a glue that I trust for everything, glued the crack and released the tension, I have now back the bow with goat rawhide which is very thin,and wrapped it with bandage to make sure it stays tight.
Sure hope I have done this right.
Robb
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Sounds like you might have a little grain run out. Backing it will definitely help. Another thing to remember on the next one is to round the corners a little then sand the sides and back nice and smooth before you begin tillering. You will still make it. Just take it nice and slow. Justin
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thanks Justin, when you guys comong to Canada, I sure could use your your expertise,and help. Maybe we could talk Marc St. Louis in starting a rondezevous up here in Canada.
Robb
p.s. now I'll have Mark angry with me for suggesting that one.
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You set us up a bear hunt and Im sure we can get a crowd up there, I know I will be. ;) Justin
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Where abouts in Ontario are you Robb? I'm in michigans UP about an hour and half from Sault Ste Marie :)
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I don't mean to change the subject, but any you brothers ever ate bar? I just happened to think of it when Justin mentioned bar hunting in Canada. I don't hunt anything I don't intend to eat and I thought if I kill a bar I'd have to find a way to dress it and eat it.
~~Matt
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Bear is good eating Matt, looks kinda like a dead person once the skin is off though :o ;) ;D
Make sure to save the fat for rendering also.
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I half-way imagined that it would be, kind of like a giant racoon. Boy, if a person takes a bar you would really be in a good haul then eh. All kinds of raw material, teeth, claw, great big hide, sinew?, fat, bone. Such a generous little bar to give up all those wonderful gifts. Man, it makes me wish we had bar here in Indiana.
Hey Dana, you's got moose there in the UP don't ya's?
~~Matt
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Yup but if yer caught shootin one, they execute ya :D Same with wolves ??? :(
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That's really too bad but it's to ensure the survival of the beast I guess. Here in Indiana our variety of beast is not at all what it was say 200 years ago. Of course everything changes a lot in 200 years, but it just goes to show ya what people can do to destroy their environment. We used to have bar, panther, bobcat, buffalo, rattlesnake, eagle, elk, wolves, and the list goes on and on, like in most states. Now we ain't got none of them besides a rare bobcat, rattlesnake or eagle that have been re-introduced. Even foxes in a lot of places are becommin rare. I'm 30, and in all my life living out in the country, hunting, farming, etc. have not seen more than 6 foxes. Good Lord, it's not uncommon to go rabbit huntin' anymore and not see nothin the whole day!
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Dana I'm about 45min outside Windsor Ontario, or an hour from Detroit. As far as bear goes it's like a dark pork, and to be truthful with ya I've had it cooked different ways including meatballs and I still wasn't that fond of it.
Robb
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I think bear meat is excellent, tastes very similar to beef. The ways most people try to cook wild game would ruin a filet mignon, and then they say they don't like it. There is a lot of difference in bear depending on what they have been eating, though. Dump-scavenger bears often aren't fit to eat, or ones that have been eating a lot of fish taste funky. Besides the meat, bear grease is great stuff, you can even make biscuits with it, just like you would use lard or any other shortening.
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ive only had bear meat once
thought it was greasy an stringy :P
but i would try it again,as long as someone differant was cooking it this time
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The bear got I last year was very good. I took some to work and even the skeptics liked it.
Mark