Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Muskyman on September 25, 2024, 05:32:50 pm
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Starting a new one. Wanted to try something different and had this hickory stave with a bunch of propeller twist in it. I figured I’d give it a shot and see what happens.
I’ll post more pictures as I move forward. Going to try and straighten one limb at a time and see how it goes.
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Cool. With hickory being so resistant to breaking, even with grain run-outs and back violations, I've long wondered if you could make a bow out of twisted hickory and just leave it twisted. I bet you could get away with it if you kept the weight fairly low. It would be interesting to try, and you might end up with a bow that looked like a narwhal horn!
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You could tiller the twist out of it so it's straight at full draw.
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You might could do that Pat, I doubt I could. I was thinking about steaming it out then using dry heat to set the limbs. I don’t know if that will work but that was my thinking. I tried very hard to follow the grain in the stave. It’s 70 inches long and 1&1/2 wide at the fades. Planning on a pyramid style bow. Probably has 1/4 turn of twist to it.
Anyone ever done that? Can it be done? I really don’t know.
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I’ve done it with Osage. But it’s easier to cut the center of the bow on the belly side of handle until It’s about 3/4” then heat and twist the handle section. That gets a lot of the propeller out. I did a bow build on here with that method. I shined the sawed section and did a glue on to the belly of handle. You can also put reflex or deflex in the handle at that point.
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That twist should pull out no problem while heat treating. Get it floor tillered for minimal wood thickness then make a couple wedges from pine so it’s softer than the hickory. Use the wedges to twist the limbs about 20% further than thy currently are while heating, once locked in where you want scorch the snot out of the belly.
You could also leave that amount of twist, it’s not a problem at all. This spring I did an Osage where one limb had about 80* of twist and I left it. It shoots fine. Just use a single side nock in the high side of the limb and the string will stay put
Kyle
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Thanks for all the replies. I’m not sure how I’m going to attack this thing yet but did get some interesting feedback. I did work on it some today and have it shaped, mostly.
1-1/2 at the fades and about 3/8 at the tip. 70 inches long. It’s at floor tiller and bending somewhat.
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I have done a lot of Hickory , you can take that out pretty easy with dry heat, I usually on one with a lot of propeller take it out in 2 or 3 sessions , or what every it takes, be patent, :) it will sometimes rupture the back if you try and take it all at once. :)
Pappy
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Thanks Pappy, I think I’ll try it your way. Do one limb at a time and see what I can do with it. Once I get the twist out I’ll probably clamp it and try to add a little reflex. I’ve actually got about 6-8 staves from the same tree and all of them have the prop twist. If I don’t make a bow from this one I can try again on another one. Never a waste of time trying to make a bow.
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Ya much like mocoon catcher said. Many that I’ve done like that I clamp it down to my caul at this stage and get it straight and tips aligned like has been said and heat treat it. I don’t go past the correction with hickory as it holds pretty well once heat treated fairly deeply on belly. Only word of caution, protect the back. Put down some sort of fibreglass batt or something to prevent some of the heat getting around to the back of bow. The heat will wrap around a bit you will want to avoid as much of that as poss. I usually get my profile done and the bow bending good at floor tiller usually limbs around 1/2” or under in thickness then clamp down and heat treat. When you pull it off the caul it will be pretty straight and hold. With Osage of yew I will go past the correction a little as some of it will creep back and undo the correction. Best of luck with it.
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Thanks Dave. I might have some wall insulation laying around. I’ll test it and make sure it doesn’t melt before I use it. I think it’s fiberglass. If I even kept it. It was a left over from a past home project.
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Clamped it down and did some heating on it. Didn’t overdo it but still worked on it for about 35-40 minutes. Never stayed in one place for to long. Worked longer on the limb with the most twist.
Waited about 2 hours then went out and unclamped it on one limb. Twist was gone but wasn’t keeping its reflex. Clamped it back down and checked the other end with the same result but, the prop twist seems to be gone. I’ll probably try and heat some reflex into it tomorrow.
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thats good sign mike. really put the heat to it when you get it clamped down. you want the color to go little over half way through the thickness of the limb. doing this transforms the belly wood and hardens it up and dives out moisture. you may even hear it hissing. People tend to under cook the first baked white wood bows. It will scorch the belly a bit but thats fine. you will scrape most of this off when you finish tillering.
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Never could get the bow to keep the reflex I was looking for with my heat gun. I’m sure I wasn’t getting it hot enough. Checked the mc and it was 13 percent plus. So I fired up my charcoal pit and clamped it down and put it on there. Not sure if I overdid it. It was on there for close to a hour. Pictures show end result
Still is about 5/8 thick in the limbs so I’m probably okay. Going to let it rehydrate for a day or two then start thinning the limbs down and adding some thickness on the handle and finish shaping the fades and the handle
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Ya that’s pretty wet.
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It looks a bit scorched but once you get some belly wood off you’ll be fine. You may have had it too close to the coal bed if that’s after one hour. Next time try to aim for 2-3 hours and start with bow about 18-20” above the bed belly down. Then check it for Color change after an hour if none then lower it down a few inches. A good coal bed should last at least 2-3 hours depending on outside temps. Just fyi for next one. If you are still getting a reading on your meter after that cook then hit it again with the heat gun or another coal bed treatment. Don’t flex too much at this point let it rehydrate a bit. After a day or so it should just barely register a mc reading and not get near 10% no matter what humidity is. Keith Shannon uses the term hydrophobic to describe this ability to repel moisture absorption.
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Thanks Dave. I scraped it some and it’s a rich brown now. It’s still thick in the limbs yet.
Also I have watched Keith’s video with Clay Hayes and watched them cooking bows. I also have glued a handle on it, after cooking it. Used ea-40 for that. I’ll probably shape that in a few days. Just gotta let it sit for now because I’m busy with other stuff .
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Been working on this bow some. Picture is pulled about 23 inches and it’s around 36-38 lbs. also had lost a lot of its reflex when I unstrung it. I put it back on my form and heated it again and got a lot of the reflex back. Don’t know if it will keep it or not but figured it was worth a shot.
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Decided to flip the tips on this bow and during the heating process, I was heating it about the first 3 inches and after about 10-15 minutes of slowly trying to heat the tip of the first limb it suddenly started bending about 5 inches up the limb and just folded over at that point. So I cut it off and cut 5 inches off the other end and now I have a 60 inch bow left.. probably over cooked it on the coals in my original cook. Gonna put it into the naughty pile. I’ll start another bow from a new piece of hickory or some other wood. If I cook the next one on coals I’ll keep it farther away from the heat like superdave suggested earlier in this thread.. lesson learned, maybe 🤔
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Ya that’s too bad. Been there done that. You can’t safely flip the tips after heat treating. You know that now like you say lesson learned. If flipped tips or recurve is what you are gonna want then steam them in prior to heat treatment. Design your coal bed and caul to incorporate the recurves. I’m designing a caul at the moment similar to Arvin’s deflex reflex Osage flight bow. Instead I’m using hickory. Gonna see if it can handle the deflex reflex extremes. We shall see. I plan on steaming the handle area and fades to get my deflex and also the recurves. Should be an interesting build anyway. Your wallpaper steamer would be magic for this btw. Just a thought. Give it another go and keep an eye on it constantly. Go slow and keep heat to the belly just hot enough so you can’t keep your hand there for more then a couple seconds for the first hour. This is important to prevent splits and rapid charring on surface of belly. Then remaining hour or two can be little closer to the heat but adjust its height with some bricks as you go and babysit it and keep an eye on it. Don’t walk away from it and come back in an hour thinking you’ll be good. You more then likley will be disappointed. This is why I do 4 at a time in my coal bed. It maximizes my time and coal bed. I’m committed anyway to watching it so might as well make the most of it. The rule of thumb for this is low and slow as Keith Shannon puts it. Low as in temperature and slow as in 2-3hours.
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Thanks Dave. You’re right about the fact I tend to try to get it heated to fast. I think I’ve scorched about every bow I’ve tried to cook on coals. Funny thing is I’m just the opposite with my heat gun. I just can’t make myself stay after heating one that way. I think it’s the same thing that causes both, no patience.. not enough to stay at it with the heat gun and not enough to let it sit over the coals at a higher level away from the heat. Like with most things, I have to learn the hard way :o :o
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That's to bad, was looking forward to seeing how this one turned out, I do usually do and tip flipping before heat treating, never done any over a pit so can't say,do it with a heat gun, and usually don't do much heat other that to straighten/profile and line up until I have it at low brace and everything even. :) and you are right patents is the key, it ant a road race. :)
Pappy