Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: chasonhayes on February 13, 2022, 11:55:50 am
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With what I learned with all your help I have started another. This time I used the following roughed out dimensions
Length 68"
handle length 4" offset down by 3/4"
Fades 1 3/4" continuing for 15" then tapering to 3/8"
Thickness:
Handle 1 1/4"
fade 3/4" and for an additional 2"
5/8" at 4 inches from end of fade
9/16" at mid limb
1/2" at tip
At this point it was bending enough to put on my stringer and tillering tree. I pulled it to 25lbs 40 times then marked areas and started scraping. I did this for about 6 rounds and here is where I am at. I think it is too stiff out of the fades but I'm being cautious. her to avoid causing a big set like bow #6.
Any and all input is appreciated.
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Right limb looks ok.Match the left limb to it.Left limb has a stiff spot mid limb.
Get it bending evenly and put into a low brace and see what you got.
You want a nice even taper thickness wise along whole working limb.No abrubt tapering over a short area in your working limbs.
Think stream lined look.Your inner limb width is good.
Last 6" to tip can be thicker again but narrower.
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I think it is too stiff out of the fades but I'm being cautious. her to avoid causing a big set like bow #6.
It does look stiff at the fades, but it is early days. Get it bending smoothly from a couple inches away from the fades to the tip and then ease into the fades slowly from there. A little bit of movement at the fades equals a lot at the tip, so go gentle there. I would say it is better to be stiff out of the fades than building in a hinge, so approach that area carefully and do less scraping than you think you want.
Mark
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It could be an optical illusion, but your handle looks a lot more than 4”. If so you are giving up some working limb length, if not please disregard. Can you show a photo of the back of the bow?
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I doubt if it is an optical illusion, that handle is much wider than 4"
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The fence post is probably 3.5". So, depending on whether you have shaped the front of the bow fades there, you could get more working limb by making a 4" grip/2-3" ish fades.
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It could be an optical illusion, but your handle looks a lot more than 4”. If so you are giving up some working limb length, if not please disregard. Can you show a photo of the back of the bow?
That’s my first thought.
Between handle fades and stiff area out of fades there’s a lot of none bending area there.
That’s better than a hinge out of the fade though.
I would shorten up the handle
I like the bend you do have so far though and that’s how I like to tiller a bow. I like to get outers moving and the work my way in. I have to keep revisiting them as I get more of the limb bending and they start to stiffen back up again, but that’s just me. One of the best I know starts right out of the fades.
Bjrogg
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I doubt if it is an optical illusion, that handle is much wider than 4"
You are correct. I made a silly mistake. After marking out the handle and the fades I forgot to cut them.
Here is the new pic with the handle and fades cut out and a few more tillering sessions. I'm still only pulling it to 25lbs until the consensus is that the limbs are bending well.
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There's no need to shape the handle until you've reached full draw. Jawge
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So my plan was to carefully adjust the bending until it was even then brace it and test it at 50lbs to see how much draw there was. Then I was going to carefully reduce the weight until I hit 50lbs at 28"
I used the tillering gizmo to mark high places and I used a card scraper for 30 times over each high spot then pulled it 50 times and repeated until I felt the bending was good. Each time I never pulled it heavier than 25lbs to avoid getting set. I then braced it and carefully tested the weight and came up 37lbs at 28". I do not know what I did wrong. Somehow in trying to even out the bending I reduced the weight too much before I even checked it.
Here are the pics: under tension, braced and and back view. Please offer suggestions.
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You should have been pulling it past 25# , closer to but not past your desired finished weight. You just kept tillering it to the 25# weight every time you took more wood off.
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Hang in there. If you are still at 68" you may be able to get into the mid 40's by shortening it and by adding some reflex or slight recurve.
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Have you heat treated the belly? If not I would try that. Then see what the weight is. It may need retillering after that as well.
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You should have been pulling it past 25# , closer to but not past your desired finished weight. You just kept tillering it to the 25# weight every time you took more wood off.
Any tips to getting it bending smoothly without taking too much off so I can safely test the weight? In board bow# 4 I tested it at 50lbs and bent the lower limb out of the fade for a permanent set.
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You should have been pulling it past 25# , closer to but not past your desired finished weight. You just kept tillering it to the 25# weight every time you took more wood off.
Any tips to getting it bending smoothly without taking too much off so I can safely test the weight? In board bow# 4 I tested it at 50lbs and bent the lower limb out of the fade for a permanent set.
Too much time on the long string will make you come in under weight too because the bend changes on the short string and you have to address that.. You should not experience set unless you are bending too much in one area. If you put a board blank that is 3/4” thick on your tree and pull with a belly tight long string to 50# there is no way you should get set because it would not be bending enough. What little bend that is there will be in the center. You work the outer limbs so all the bend is not in the center or fades as it were if you already reduced material for fades. Set happens when you have too much bend radius in one area with too much thickness to accommodate the bend.
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Your bend doesn’t have to be perfect before you pull to you intended weight. I usually get floor tillered and unless something looks really bad I pull about 30 times and work up to my draw weight and take note of what my draw length is.
If your pulling 50 @ 20 and your tiller is a little wonky yet. The wood you compress will still end up being removed with more tillering. Unless it’s a bad hinge.
The set usually doesn’t start creeping in till about 25” of draw. And then it might be hard to remove as removing wood from set area is going to exacerbate the problem. You want your tiller pretty close by this point.
The easiest way for me to hit my intended draw weight is to start pulling to it as soon as I can. Somebody else might have a better way, but that’s what works for me.
Bjrogg
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Working with Osage I usually get the tips moving 4” to 6” on the long string and then go to my short string with about a 3” brace if I can. Then will start working on evening up the limbs from there. There is always lots of wood removal to work with at that point. Once I get limbs bending how I like them, I start drawing just shy of my desired finish weight. I raise my brace height to about 6” once I can draw it back to about 24”-25”. I usually like to end up 50# @ 28”, so I will pull to 47-48#, exercise the limbs 30 times, then scrape some more, put back on tillering tree and repeat. I see about a 2-1/2# gain per inch of draw so about 25” I start pulling to my 50# to bring in the final tiller. Others may do it differently but this has worked well for me.
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Great advice. When exercising the limbs after scraping do I pull to full draw weight each time? Or do I pull it to something less and just check the draw length at full weight 1 time after exercising?
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I usually flex things a few times first at less than draw weight and if it looks close I work up to draw weight. If it looks good there I usually pull it there several times and if it’s still pretty good hold it there a few seconds and look it over good. I usually snap a picture there to if I’m having to figure out where to remove wood.
Then I pull it again after I look at the pictures and see if they make sense. Then I mark spots I want to remove wood
Bjrogg
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Apply a little bit of logic to the process instead of just methods. You can't hurt your bow by pulling to full draw weight unless it is already too weak in an area that is bending too much. The area that is bending too much limits the entire bow to the maximum you can pull before that one spot on your limb starts bending too much. Another thing to remember is that you can get a fairy accurate reading of your draw weight without bracing it. If your bow is pulling 50# on a long string hanging loose 6" at say 20". It read just about the same as if you braced it. Most people say that you should brace a bow when it is about 10 or 15# heavy. That would mean when you hit target weight at about 23 or 24" on the long string it is time to brace it. Once you get some experience and a feel for things you have a lot more freedom to change the way you work. But without experience that are logical methods you can follow that will bring you right into weight as long as you don't screw up the tiller.
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I’m currently working on a wonky osage stave that I have set aside since 2013 because I had little hope of it surviving my tillering expertise. I finally decided it would either make a bow or go to the burn pile. I’m finding Badgers insights pretty close. I got it pulling to about 50# at 23” on the long string before switching to a 3” brace. I pull it about 30 times to the 50# at 23”, then scrape until I get 50# at 24” then pull 30 times. Then repeat to 25” then to 26” and so on. Once I get it to maybe 25” I start creeping the brace up until I can get it to 6” from the belly of the handle. Most of my bows seem to like a finished brace of about 6-1/4” from the belly of the handle. YMMV.
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This is all great stuff. thanks. It is hard to get a feel for it just reading books and watching videos. I think I'm going to just finish this bow up as is and use it for target practice and get started on my next one with what I have learned.
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This is all great stuff. thanks. It is hard to get a feel for it just reading books and watching videos. I think I'm going to just finish this bow up as is and use it for target practice and get started on my next one with what I have learned.
That’s a great plan! I would bet that most everyone that has given you advice on here has had many outright failures and as many bows not come out the way we wanted them to. Taking what you’ve learned and learning from others advice will make the next one a little closer to what you want, and the one after that closer still. Eventually you will get to where the failures you have are a result of an accident such as getting too deep with the rasp or drawknife, experimenting on a new type of bow like pushing the limits on a bow wood, or an unseen flaw in the wood. This is very much so a trial and error learned craft lol.
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I very much admire your persistence! And each effort is getting a lot better from what I can tell.
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So here is the finished product! My first working bow that didn't break. I had so much fun today in the backyard shooting a couple homemade arrows at a box filled with Styrofoam. I hit it over 50% of the time at 15 yards. It is finished with 2 layers of tung oil and 2 layers of polyacryilic. the string is 14 strands of double twisted B55, the nock protectors are deer femur. and the handle padding is homemade buckskin. It took me about 8 times re-brading the string to get the right length for a 6" brace.
Thanks for all the help. Hickory board bow #8 to be started next weekend. I also just came in to a log of white oak and 3 logs of ERC. Enough to keep me busy for a while. Having lots of free wood takes the fear out of trying.
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2 more pics
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Makes me smile just reading about it. ;)
Bjrogg
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Great to see you stick with it and get it shooting. It’s a great feeling when you get there. It sounds like you’re learning with every one you make. Hopefully every one you make gets better and better. Congrats.
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Nice job.