Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: n2everythg on May 14, 2008, 11:07:20 pm
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So if you realize early in the tillering process that you are not going to make weight on a bow, would it be better to pike it early or wait until all tillering is finished?
I ask cause that snaky sage I am working on is really kicking my butt.
I am now 15 lbs at 15 inches and the tiller is still way off in one limb and the snakey limb... well who the heck knows.. I cant hardly tell...
'fraid this one may just be a learning experience...
The way I calculate it....even if i didnt scrape on it any more I'm thinking I would only hit maybe 55-60 using 3#/inch. That correct approx?
I got another 14 inches to pull.
Would y'all recommend I pike her now rather than later? or tiller her out and see where she ends up?
thanks
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I recommend Pictures....and plenty of them!!!
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If it were me, I would wait. Accually I would put it aside and work on something else, loose your patience you loose a bow.
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If it were me, I would wait. Accually I would put it aside and work on something else, loose your patience you loose a bow.
Sounds like good advice to me Dano. Justin
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good suggestion. and very good point I think.
Im out of town next week for work. then Hickory is here. Im gonna lock it in the closet til I leave town then take it to hickory and get some opinions. in the meantime maybe I'll start another one or work on some arrows.
but I did take a bunch of pics anyway for those not going to hickory.
And I did re weigh it. The bow has been in a warm box all day but it was pulling 21# at 15".
Never worked a snake before. One limb is snaky the other pretty straight.
so wanna see the ugly pics?
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s142/n2everythg/BowBuilding/Newbows/snake15003.jpg)
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s142/n2everythg/BowBuilding/Newbows/snake15008.jpg)
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s142/n2everythg/BowBuilding/Newbows/snake15009.jpg)
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s142/n2everythg/BowBuilding/Newbows/snake15010.jpg)
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s142/n2everythg/BowBuilding/Newbows/snake15011.jpg)
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s142/n2everythg/BowBuilding/Newbows/snake15012.jpg)
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s142/n2everythg/BowBuilding/Newbows/snake15013.jpg)
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s142/n2everythg/BowBuilding/Newbows/snake15014.jpg)
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s142/n2everythg/BowBuilding/Newbows/snake15015.jpg)
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s142/n2everythg/BowBuilding/Newbows/snake15016.jpg)
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N2 the tiller looks great, what length are you at, and what draw length are you shooting for? Character bows are tough, you are doing pretty good at this point.
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Tiller looks good to me too, I would keep going and if you don't make weigth but tiller is good pike it then.
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I spoke too soon.....that Tiller looks nice....really nice.....do what the others said....wait till it is done....and then if you arent happy with the Weight....Pike it.....tham are some awesome Limbs on that Sucker!!! Love it!!!
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hum. thanks... maybe I'm just 'skert.
or maybe the weird bends have my eyes all messed up. looks to me like that straight limb is much stronger and straighter than the kinky one and I couldnt figure out where it needed work as it makes a "U" bend up towards the back pretty close to the handle.
Maybe my eyes are just fuzzy.
Im at 15" and need to get to 30". so 1/2 way there and at 21 lbs now.
gonna drop it for the night tho its late.
gonna go dream of scrapin'
thanks
n2
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N2, Sometimes there are trade-offs, and if I got it shooting real good the way it is even if its a couple pounds light I'd leave it..There's plenty of straight wood to get the poundage you want from. You may get your poundage by piking that bow, but may lose some smoothness of draw, and cast as well.
I'd be shooting for a great tiller, small tips, and a fast string to gain in cast what I might not get in poundage..remember a really fast 45# beats an average 55# bow..
Thats a great looking bow you got going there, and I'd be shooting it a bunch before piking it. It's osage so you can easily play with the shape using heat as well..
Keep a close eye on the snakey limb, and make sure its bending between the roller coasters..I'm sure this bow is a big step so don't feel like you have to finish it soon..
Rich
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Looks good. No butt kicking yet. A handy trick on a character stave is to check the tiller from the other side. The trouble with picking is the set is invariably increased because the bow was designed to be longer. I do not believe the cast is changed much. jawge
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I think that bow is done, pull it one inch at a time several times, check for tiller changes, by the time you get to 28" it should be 55# or more
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Wade, It looks good to me also. One thing that has helped me with character limbs is to squint my eyes to look at each limb. It eliminates the details but gives you an overall look at the shape(bend). For the next couple of hours you work on her, don't use a blade of any kind. Study the wood. Feel the wood See where it wants to go and guide it there. If you try to force it, you're in trouble. Go reread "Zen ...Archery". ;) 8)
Bring the bow to Hickory and we'll have a group discussion about it. ;) Pat
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Looks good to me also,sometimes that snaky,humpy stuff is hard to see but that looks good
so far.I would finish it and then pike if you need more weight.Nice piece of wood.I love it. :)
Pappy
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You usually pike a bow when it's finished... if you want to add weight.
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Thanks guys for the review and comments.
Perhaps the bow is closer than I thought. Still 'feels' wrong. But maybe that is just me and this piece of wood.
Maybe Y'all are right... u sure all are more experienced than this green horn.
Guess the reason I feel like this one is kicking my butt is cause seems like I have had to fight the wood all the way to get her to this point. And she still isnt spilling all her secrets to me. know what I mean?
But my question still stands... I am curious at what point cutting a bow down a bit is really piking and not just changing the design.
I'm not touching this bow. but I am curious to hear your opinions.
Once you have bent her X distance its gotta be piking and not just a design change......
Is it floor tillering? brace? later?
And if you are 1/2 to desired draw and shorten the bow.. even if it has no visible set yet - are you adversely affecting the performance of the end product?
I know why someone would do it at the end... but what about before?
thanks
N2
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It's possible that shortening at a late stage in the tillering process is going to adversly affect the bows performance if you exceed the target weight . In my veiw it boils down to your expetations of a particular bows performance , I've messed up plenty of bows that could have shot harder in similar circumstances to you and ended up with 10 pounds underweight or 2 inches or more of stringfollow and each and everyone of them has turned into a new favourite .
The old adage that if you do not exceed the final draw weight you will not have strained the limbs is correct , shorten her up in the tillering process before you reach target weight and the bow won't know any differant . Just obey this rule and you'll be right . Some bits of wood just are not 60# bows
regards Jacko
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With a stave that requires alot of heat correction, I'll leave it long untill I get the string centered, and then cut the limbs to my desired length. I don't think there is a whole lot of effect on a bow that is half way through the tiller process, if you pike it. To me it's a waste of time to pike a bow half way through. Most of the time a guy will have to pike a bow in the end because he sanded too much, in this case he only needs to make a few pounds, not 10-20.
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If I had extra wood I would always tiller my bows long, than pike them at the end, less stress on the wood during the tillering process.
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Well I piked her. only about 2 inches. hoping to raise draw weight just a bit. didnt hardly change weight at all.
This bow has been a learning experience.
This was my second osage bow (first was kids) and I have got to say this stuff is awesome. Man it will take a beating. I now know why it seems to be most everyones favorite wood.
I have hammered this bow. probably did everything wrong. and she still wont break and hardly shows any set. I probably lost maybe 1.5 inches of original reflex and now she is flat.
I have her tillered out to 30 inches. the bow came in at about 46 lbs at 29 inches. I was hoping for 50 - 55. The bow is now 61 1/2" NTN.
Like I said it was a real learning experience. I havent narrowed the tips but have flung a couple of arrows and it seems to have good cast and not much hand shock at all. hardly noticeable.
I cant really tell if I butchered the tiller or not. Looking for any comments and suggestions as I work to finish it off.
it looks stiff in the outer 2/3rds of the left limb but I think that is because it does a loop-d-loop upwards towards the back there.
I also think that it maybe bends just a bit too much close to the handle but there is no going back on that one.
I also wish I would have made the fades 2" instead of 2.5 but guess I will have to wait til the next one to correct that.
What do y'all think?
I think it is time to narrow the tips and finish her off and go shoot her.
thanks.
wade
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s142/n2everythg/BowBuilding/snake29002.jpg)
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s142/n2everythg/BowBuilding/snake29003.jpg)
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s142/n2everythg/BowBuilding/snake29004.jpg)
thanks again.
wade
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The bow looks great to me. When you say "Well I piked her. only about 2 inches. hoping to raise draw weight just a bit. didnt hardly change weight at all." Was that 2" in total length or 2" of each limb?
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Wade, You nailed it!!! 8) I told ya so! ;D ::) Pat
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thanks pat. Think she looks ok? I'm pretty happy with her all in all even though I didnt make weight. I still think it will be a fun little bow to shoot and well I wanted a shorter bow anyway. Be more fun stalkin'.....
Dano. that was 1" off each limb. I think I gained maybe 5 pounds total but I took it right back off making minor tiller adjustments.
Just thinned the tips a bit and shot a dozen or so arrows with it. It didnt seem to change the tiller or set any that I could tell. Maybe not enough arrows yet. Getting late so tomorrow I will thin the tips a bit more and maybe do some more shooting.
night guys.
wade
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WONDERFULL bow !...good job.
Hey you can gain some weigth by belly tempering too, ...again very nicely tillered
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yeah, why not try belly tempering with a heat gun and tell us how it goes?