Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Fox on June 02, 2021, 12:05:23 am
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So I've got this bow my favorite bow... I made it probably 2 years ago.... just a really simple locust bendy handle bow 57" long 45# @ 26"
But it had a few big thorn clumps and one lifted two big splinters... so maybe a year ago I just put super glue on it and wrapped it with dogbane and it held up for a while... but I really don't think its going to hold together any longer.... so I thought about pulling the sinew off my hickory bow that the belly failed on and putting it on this one...
Then I was scanning the belly for frets and found a few tiny ones, but Pat(?) or someone just sinewed an old locust bow with some frets (I believe?) and was wondering if it was worth a shot...
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(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50122271443_48957256cf_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jn8K4R)103432 (https://flic.kr/p/2jn8K4R) by Livvydog (https://www.flickr.com/photos/141458655@N02/), on Flickr
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Fox, tomorrow is 2 weeks since I sinew backed "Phoenix" so I'm going to take her off the form and see what's up. I'll be posting pics and a description of the results so far. I know I'll have to retiller and reduce weight but then I'll know for sure.
If it's your favorite bow, why not keep it going. :OK
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If you added enough sinew to re-tiller and take the strain of the fretted areas.....A fret is a fret....and as such it is showing you that your tiller wasn't good enough. Address this and you may be ok!
However once a bow has been shot in and the belly compressed you can really make things go south by reflexing the bow and stretching an already compressed belly.....beware!
Also because sinew has such low stretch resistance you will have to add plenty for enough weight gain and of course sinew likes to be put on a reflexed bow to take addvantage of how far it can stretch....all in all for me its a bit of a waste of time. The best sinewed bow will be one that was designed that way from the start but you may learn something along the way by trying....there is no definate answer to your question really :)
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Okay guys :)
Yeah the frets are only in about a 2” section on one limb and are really really tiny, I can only see them at the right angle of light..
It will be sad to cover up the beautiful back of the bow though. I’d rather it shoot though then have a splintered but pretty back :)
So should I leave the splinters as are? Or pull them off and sand them down ? Or just sand them flat and sinew over them?
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How do I put this gently.... whenever I have had a back splinter, that bow is done. Not saying you cant put a bandaid on it and continue shooting it because you can. I'm just saying its time to pick out another stave start the journey over again and build a new favorite bow. Sorry, just being honest with ya.....
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I agree with Stix and like Bownarra said, frets are frets, small or big. If the bow can be retillered and the frets removed, and it the limb thickness is even you might get past the frets but is it worth it with this stick? Your call.
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About 30 years ago I made my first bow from black locust. It has the worse tiller and yes, I still have it. No frets. I even tried to cut through a knot. I didn't know what I was doing. Why is survived I'll never know..
...and so I decided to make my younger brother of eternal memory a bow from black locust so we could go deer hunting together. It was badly tillered and had frets.
Oh sure we had our Darton Ranger recurves but hunting with an all wooden bow was a far superior experience...or at least, we thought it would be. Of course, it is for me now.
Well, unfortunately, his bow just folded up on him when he drew it. He was crushed. It wasn't his fault and I told him so.
Later on I made him bows and e went to shoots and hunted with them.
We enjoyed our time together. Bittersweet memories for sure. I do miss him.
Fox, I think your bow has too many things wrong with it and that you should make another and create more memories.
Jawge
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my experience with frets is ,they will eventually cause failure.. for whatever reason.. be it either bad tiller or simply not wide enough for the wood and poundage.. shoot it enough and it will fold or break.. personally I wouldn't waste sinew and time .. but it is your call brother.. gut
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my experience with frets is ,they will eventually cause failure.. for whatever reason.. be it either bad tiller or simply not wide enough for the wood and poundage.. shoot it enough and it will fold or break.. personally I wouldn't waste sinew and time .. but it is your call brother.. gut
I have always retired bows before they could break from frets, but I can't imagine it would break violently from frets. I always picture it folding over. I do have one well tillered maple board bow that had a few wrinkles in the grain, and frets formed there, but they never got worse. I retired after a year and a half it because it had 2" set.
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Alright guys I’m getting the idea :)
Anyone got a locust stave to trade? (lol)
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You're going to try locust again!!!
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Try locust ? Yeah it’s my favorite wood I’ve used! :)
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But it always frets.
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No? Over-stressing is what causes locust and all wood to fret. Whether that be from improper tiller or improper design. Locust can and does make some very, very fine bows.
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But it always frets.
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Really???
Black locust is one of the best bow woods going.
Fretted bellies fold over but then the back tends to break, nothing 'foldy over' about backs breaking on locust.
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But it always frets.
I've made more than a few BL bows. Never had one fret yet
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my experience with frets is ,they will eventually cause failure.. for whatever reason.. be it either bad tiller or simply not wide enough for the wood and poundage.. shoot it enough and it will fold or break.. personally I wouldn't waste sinew and time .. but it is your call brother.. gut
I have always retired bows before they could break from frets, but I can't imagine it would break violently from frets. I always picture it folding over. I do have one well tillered maple board bow that had a few wrinkles in the grain, and frets formed there, but they never got worse. I retired after a year and a half it because it had 2" set.
My experience is same.. no violent break but a fold over , which broke . I have a BL static recurve I sinewed and made for my daughter when she was younger.. its 54 inches 2" wide 38 @ 24.. no frets whatsoever.. bow has over 500 arrows through her.. if design is good and till is also.. BL makes a fine bow.. I can shoot that bow at my draw of 26 and it is a lil speed demon..gut
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Ok, I understood that Locust had very little tolerance for error.
When I talked about folding over rather than breaking, I meant that I don't see 5 pieces of the bow in different corners of the shop, I would expect the back to break, just not fly away.
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My BL bows that fret were probably due to a lack of experience in my early days.
I've made many. I learned on the wood.
I haven't had one fret in years.
Jawge
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5 pieces of bow...lol.. that sounds like cedar blowing lol... now that is violent.. IMO.. the worst I have experienced was cedar blowing..it blows with no warning..gut
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Been there, done that.
The most explosive was actually a nettle backed red oak d bow with 50% early wood. It was a little off, and I drew it quickly after it had been inactive for a while. I think that was 7 pieces total.
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LOL... build enough and you will explode one.. sometimes the culprit is inside and not visible.. those suckers are violent.. BL.. is not one of my favorites .. my mulberry static recurve that fretted after a hundred or so shots ( didn't build it wide enough ) it sat un shot for a few years I decided to shoot it some since it was such a sweet shooter and very accurate..it just folded and cracked .. trying to unbrace it afterwards was challenging to say the least... lol... gut
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I wonder if you could salvage a fretted bow by grinding off the belly wood and laminating a strip of Osage or horn to the belly.
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I've done that a few times successfully but then it becomes a laminated bow and not a selfbow.
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Better a shooting composite than a dead selfbow.
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I'm a big fan of loading my failed bows (I'm up to 6 of them now) up on my tillering rig and yanking on them until they snap. I feel like there is so much to be learned from exploded or otherwise destroyed bows. And its exciting! Seeing those limbs bendBendBEND then POW! or sometimes crunch and fold over, or sometimes just stay bent. So fox, maybe its time to send your favorite bow off to the happy hunting grounds in a maelstrom of splinters!