Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Kidder on January 26, 2021, 12:06:35 am

Title: Early wood cracks
Post by: Kidder on January 26, 2021, 12:06:35 am: Wondering what the consensus is towards the risk on this bow. I’ve finished tillering it and am ready to shoot it in before finishing. I’ve shot a dozen or two arrows through it. Throughout the build it seemed like very fine cracks on the side kept popping up and I could never get by them and if I did another would be there. They don’t seem to be very deep but hard to tell - the ones I’ve taken out weren’t terribly deep. They appear to follow the early wood rings. Neither appears to run out. The one at the fade is really non bending due to the specific tillering because of the large knot there. They both appeared after tillering was complete and the bow was at rest. Fill them with CA and forget them? Fill them and do a wrap? Panic and say the sky is falling? Thanks!
Title: Re: Early wood cracks
Post by: Hamish on January 26, 2021, 01:37:15 am: They don't look like they will be a problem. Fill with CA glue. I wouldn't bother wrapping them, though you could if you want.
Title: Re: Early wood cracks
Post by: Allyn T on January 26, 2021, 06:51:14 am: Didnt you just post about a bow blowing up? Is this from that same tree?
Title: Re: Early wood cracks
Post by: Eric Krewson on January 26, 2021, 07:12:13 am: Bad wood, proceed with caution.
Title: Re: Early wood cracks
Post by: bentstick54 on January 26, 2021, 07:35:00 am: I posted the Osage blow up. That is what I ran into on mine. I got past any visible signs so proceeded on. I got about 200 shots through it when it blew up just as I reached full draw with no warning signs. Luckily it was the lower limb that blew.
Title: Re: Early wood cracks
Post by: scp on January 26, 2021, 08:06:50 am: I'm not familiar with wind-shake, but it is defined as:
A crack or separation between growth rings in timber, attributed to the straining of tree trunks in high winds.
From: https://www.thefreedictionary.com/wind+shake

If wind can break a tree, it probably can damage the weaker grow rings and cause de-laminations deep inside the tree. We are talking about a tremendous amount of power abusing the wood here, much more than any damage we can cause in the process of tillering. Even though it might not be a problem in non-working parts of bow, other than cosmetics, it makes the whole stave questionable in its integrity.
Title: Re: Early wood cracks
Post by: Kidder on January 26, 2021, 08:54:13 am: Quote from: Allyn T on January 26, 2021, 06:51:14 am
Didnt you just post about a bow blowing up? Is this from that same tree?
Yeah that was a bad BL. This is Osage I got in a trade from a member in Texas.
Title: Re: Early wood cracks
Post by: Selfbowman on January 26, 2021, 09:01:34 am: Run a single edge razor blade in the crack as deep as you can . Then fill with thin super glue and clamp as best you can. Done probably 20-30 bows that way with great success. Arvin
Title: Re: Early wood cracks
Post by: George Tsoukalas on January 26, 2021, 09:27:35 am: I stared at that photo for quite awhile.

That crack follows a grain line.

We've all seen those roller coaster looking bows in books where the back goes up and down.
That's because the bowyer correctly followed that side grain along the length of the bow. That has to be done too. What the back does the belly should do also.

Looks like you did a good job following the lateral tip to tip grain, kidder. I've found that cracks down the length of the stave are rarely fatal unless they run off the edge. I glue them up with a CA glue and lightly clamp them.

Who knows if a bow will survive? I shot a bow for 3 years that had those cracks down its length. I still have it.

If you don't feel comfortable with it don't use it.

Jawge
Title: Re: Early wood cracks
Post by: Kidder on January 26, 2021, 09:33:14 am: Quote from: George Tsoukalas on January 26, 2021, 09:27:35 am
I stared at that photo for quite awhile.

That crack follows a grain line.

We've all seen those roller coaster looking bows in books where the back goes up and down.
That's because the bowyer correctly followed that side grain along the length of the bow. That has to be done too. What the back does the belly should do also.

Looks like you did a good job following the lateral tip to tip grain, bentstick. I've found that cracks down the length of the stave are rarely fatal unless they run off the edge. I glue them up with a CA glue and lightly clamp them.

Who knows if a bow will survive? I shot a bow for 3 years that had those cracks down its length. I still have it.

If you don't feel comfortable with it don't use it.

Jawge

Thanks Jawge that’s my thought. The cracks follow the early wood grain but don’t ever run into the late wood. Same with all of the cracks that were removed during rough out. It was a super narrow stave to begin with and I felt like I couldn’t go any narrower - maybe I didn’t get all the way through them. Either way I’m not going to abandon it. Got it filled with thin CA as best I can. Gonna put a rest on it, shoot 100-200 arrows through it and then finish it. If it blows up fine. If not, great!
Title: Re: Early wood cracks
Post by: Pat B on January 26, 2021, 09:55:29 am: Kidder, I would at least put a good, tight wrap on the bow where the shakes are, just for your own safety. If you feel uncomfortable with it you could cut it in half lengthwise and make 2 atlatls out of it. (AT) That way it won't be a total loss.
If it were my bow I would not shoot it. Even with all the work put into a bow to get it to that point it's just not worth a possible injury.
Title: Re: Early wood cracks
Post by: Kidder on January 26, 2021, 12:48:47 pm: It’s really interesting (although I’m not surprised) to see the range of responses. I’m not concerned about it blowing up and causing injury as it’s a lower limb. I also feel like the pictures may actually amplify what the problem looks like in real life as well. I’ve applied a coat of super thin CA to them and will do a sinew wrap for good measure and get to shooting it in. It’s going to be a cool bow assuming it survives. I’ve probably drawn it 500 times over the course of tillering and exercising and it’s a little long (66 inches) and I’ve got a short draw length (25-26 inches) so I’m hoping I should be fine. Only time will tell...
As a follow up am I correct to gather that what we are seeing is what is called a “wind shake”?
Title: Re: Early wood cracks
Post by: Pat B on January 26, 2021, 09:57:15 pm: I would say yes from what I can see.
Title: Re: Early wood cracks
Post by: Kidder on January 27, 2021, 08:46:44 pm: So here’s the fix. Spread thin CA over the crack, let it dry and then hit it with a scraper gently. Then added another CA application. Finally did a sinew wrap with titebond hide glue on either side of the limb crack and the base of the crack at the fade. Welcome opinions on the sinew job. Thanks for the input from everyone.
Title: Re: Early wood cracks
Post by: Pat B on January 27, 2021, 09:51:32 pm: Looks pretty good. Did you let the super glue sink down in the shakes?
Title: Re: Early wood cracks
Post by: Tom Dulaney on January 27, 2021, 10:02:35 pm: Osage is trash.

Best bow wood in the world if you can find piece that hasn't been destroyed by natural weather conditions that don't even faze willow.

Stop smoking osage, buddy. The '60s are over.
Title: Re: Early wood cracks
Post by: Kidder on January 27, 2021, 10:22:37 pm: Quote from: Pat B on January 27, 2021, 09:51:32 pm
Looks pretty good. Did you let the super glue sink down in the shakes?
Used super runny glue and got it in as best I could without trying to spread the crack.
Title: Re: Early wood cracks
Post by: RyanY on January 28, 2021, 05:51:15 am: Quote from: Tom Dulaney on January 27, 2021, 10:02:35 pm
Osage is trash.

Best bow wood in the world if you can find piece that hasn't been destroyed by natural weather conditions that don't even faze willow.

Stop smoking osage, buddy. The '60s are over.

Weird how you came out of the woodwork to once again share your unjustified opinions in these two Osage threads. How bout you share even a single bow you’ve made of any wood?
Title: Re: Early wood cracks
Post by: bentstick54 on January 28, 2021, 03:43:24 pm: Ignore him Ryan. Not worth playing into his game.
Title: Re: Early wood cracks
Post by: Kidder on January 29, 2021, 05:53:46 pm: So post repair I’ve shot approximately 150 arrows through it. No changes. So that tells me that it is going to hold up. At least until it doesn’t! I guess I will finish it. I love the finishing process and a nicely finished bow and Osage is a decent amount of postage away from me. And then on to the next!
Title: Re: Early wood cracks
Post by: bentstick54 on January 29, 2021, 07:29:56 pm: Glad it is holding together for you. Hopefully it will last you a long time. Osage is tough and with your repair, I’m betting it does.
Title: Re: Early wood cracks
Post by: bradsmith2010 on January 29, 2021, 09:13:56 pm: congrats on your bow, enjoy,, bet it shoots nice,, :)
Title: Re: Early wood cracks
Post by: George Tsoukalas on January 30, 2021, 07:23:19 am: Good to see. Congratulations!
Title: Re: Early wood cracks
Post by: scp on January 30, 2021, 10:50:22 am: Luckily the de-lamination is in the middle of the thickness. There is not much stress there. Well done and good luck.
Title: Re: Early wood cracks
Post by: Eric Krewson on January 30, 2021, 05:37:28 pm: I have posted this before; this is what sinew did to some side cracked wood I had, this led me to believe that side cracked wood lacks structural integrity.
Title: Re: Early wood cracks
Post by: Kidder on February 01, 2021, 12:21:58 pm: Quote from: Eric Krewson on January 30, 2021, 05:37:28 pm
I have posted this before; this is what sinew did to some side cracked wood I had, this led me to believe that side cracked wood lacks structural integrity.
That is absolutely terrifying...
Title: Re: Early wood cracks
Post by: Will B on February 01, 2021, 12:36:57 pm: Your fix looks good Kidder. Best of luck with your bow!
Title: Re: Early wood cracks
Post by: scp on February 01, 2021, 06:45:37 pm: Gluing sinew on the back might make it worse, especially if the de-lamination is not near the middle of thickness. Wrapping sinew over the limb would help. I would have used penetrating epoxy and clamped it tight, before sinew-wrapping with hide glue. But I hardly ever work with processed sinew.
Title: Re: Early wood cracks
Post by: Pappy on February 02, 2021, 05:14:34 pm: Looks like that might hold it, I really hate them side checks, never really know what they might do, the one near the handle wouldn't worry me near as much as the one in the limb.Good luck, hope it holds. ;)
Pappy
Title: Re: Early wood cracks
Post by: Eric Krewson on February 03, 2021, 09:22:46 am: Another picture, filled with urac glue and clamped, the sinew even pulled apart the glued crack in this weak wood.