Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Santanasaur on December 03, 2020, 03:50:09 pm
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This one draws 45# at 28” and is 72” long. The layout is asymmetric. Bottom limb is about 1.5” wide, shorter and stouter, and the upper about 1.25” wide and slightly longer. The wood is hophornbeam with a buffalo leather handle, tooled with antler tines and homemade stamps. Tips are cowhorn, and the stain is two colors of leather dye faded into each other. Handle and tips fade to black, limbs are saddle tan and the grooves in the back are colored with black dye. The arrow pass is green lamb suede.
There was a natural snakey kink in the handle that allowed for an s handle without the usual added risk. This one was tricky to tiller with all the character and the ridges on the back. Both limbs took about 3/4” of set. The lower limb holds more reflex—I tried to even it with heat but the natural shape of the stave crept back into the final tiller and I decided to leave it be be. This one’s shaping up to be one of my favorite shooters so far
better pictures here https://imgur.com/gallery/AoA1Vm8
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Awesome pics and bow! I’ve often wondered if making a lower limb wider would improve longevity due to the increased stress lower limbs experience in the draw.
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Thanks Ryan. The main reason I made the lower limb wider was mostly because it’s slightly more reflexed. So in the end it’s slightly thinner than the top limb. Normally I don’t do this
I have also had the thought that for a shorter lower limb to resonate at the same frequency as the top limb it would have to be slightly wider and thinner. In theory if the limbs have the same spring frequency they’ll have the same timing (ignoring the string) even though the travel distance might be different (assuming bows are simple springs) I know the string will force both to come home together, but I am still curious what the relationship is between the frequency of each limb and hand shock or vibration. Just thinking out loud
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Interesting stick. I especially like the fifth and the last pictures.
Well done
Bjrogg
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Excellent workmanship. Really neat bow.
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quite nice!
but I am still curious what the relationship is between the frequency of each limb and hand shock or vibration. Just thinking out loud,
wouldn't shock be more about the unequal momentum left in each limb when the string comes back to brace?
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Fantastic bow all round...but certainly no surprise given your track record! Great job!
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quite nice!
but I am still curious what the relationship is between the frequency of each limb and hand shock or vibration. Just thinking out loud,
wouldn't shock be more about the unequal momentum left in each limb when the string comes back to brace?
I think you’re right Willie. I’m just wondering if spring frequency has any additional influence
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you post above mentions resonate, which might imply a natural vibration if plucked or struck like a string or tuning fork?
As we are trying to get as much work out of the limbs as possible, could you be referring to the return rate or limb timing?
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Good looking bow!
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you post above mentions resonate, which might imply a natural vibration if plucked or struck like a string or tuning fork?
As we are trying to get as much work out of the limbs as possible, could you be referring to the return rate or limb timing?
I was just talking about minimizing vibration, and maybe slightly reducing shock. I’m curious if there’s anything special about limbs with the same frequency or if nothing different happens.
The reason Im interested in frequency to begin with is that Ive been wondering about making something similar to Badger’s mass theory model but with frequency as the variable instead. Basically it would be a model that predicts the frequency a bow should have given it’s specs, just like the mass theory table. As you tiller you would approach the correct frequency for the bow, just like you narrow in on the right mass with Badger’s model. The advantage is that this would be unaffected by the mass in the handle. Just a half baked idea
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Good bow friend! You've a knack for taking pics of em too, like that last pic especially. Which sort of leather dyes did you use for it exactly?
Kind regards, Michael from the Netherlands( that guy from the bowyer subreddit)
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Thanks Michael, the dyes are fiebings leather dye. I did the whole bow in saddle tan, then blended black into the handle, tips, and the crevices on the back. To get the dye in the valleys but not everywhere else I used a very similar technique as in this video of wiping shellac over the ridges on the back, as a resist. https://youtu.be/z7aX9vilxwc
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The reason I'm interested in frequency to begin with is that Ive been wondering about making something similar to Badger’s mass theory model but with frequency as the variable instead.
modeling and developing guidelines for bowmaking gives us all comparative benchmarks to share and improve from :)
to follow a bit better what you are hoping to do, could you give a bit more explanation of what frequency you are thinking about? would not each limb tend to set up a shock wave when returning home at its own frequency? Amplitudes being less or more noticeable?
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Beautiful work my friend!
And very interesting experiments with design!
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Good looking bow, beautiful finish.
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Well done!!!! Why so long? You have a long draw? Again very nice bow. Arvin
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Beautifully crafted character bow. I love natural center-shot bows. Great job with the bow and your pictures!
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Beautiful bow.
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This bow looks great and I love the colors and profile. Really enjoying your Youtube channel, very relaxing ambiance and scenery. Could drift off to sleep to it.
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beautiful congrats,, )P(
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Beautiful and very inspiring!
Thank's for sharing.
Michael
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Nice job from a challenging piece of wood. :)
Pappy
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The reason I'm interested in frequency to begin with is that Ive been wondering about making something similar to Badger’s mass theory model but with frequency as the variable instead.
modeling and developing guidelines for bowmaking gives us all comparative benchmarks to share and improve from :)
to follow a bit better what you are hoping to do, could you give a bit more explanation of what frequency you are thinking about? would not each limb tend to set up a shock wave when returning home at its own frequency? Amplitudes being less or more noticeable?
I’ve really been throwing around my terms Willie, I haven’t thought this through all the way so hopefully someone can shoot some holes in my thinking. I’m talking about the spring frequency, assuming that bows are simple springs. Of course this isn’t true and might ruin the idea right on the spot.
I’m thinking the simplest way to measure this would be to ‘dry fire’ a limb (unbraced) from a few inches so you can measure the oscillation frequency (in other words predicting the dry fire speed by assuming the bow is a simple spring) If bows really were simple springs you would only have to hit the limb like a tuning fork but I think pulling a bit more will be more accurate.
Here’s what I think would have to hold true for the model to work. 1—early in tillering the frequency will be very high and drops as you tiller. 2—It’s possible to predict the frequency of a finished bow from the specifications, using a model from a large data pool (same as we do with mass) 3— A bow with too low a frequency judging by the model is not heavily stressed, and could be drawn farther, or made narrower, or shorter. Similarly a bow with too high a frequency is under built and will overwhelm itself.
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Well done!!!! Why so long? You have a long draw? Again very nice bow. Arvin
This one only draws 28”. The set isn’t too bad at 3/4” per limb but would have been worse if I went for more draw length or shortened the bow. I’ve made similar designs 68” long in the past but this piece really challenged my skills. I’m sure a better bowyer could get more from it with better tiller.
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This bow looks great and I love the colors and profile. Really enjoying your Youtube channel, very relaxing ambiance and scenery. Could drift off to sleep to it.
Thanks Kenneth, I’m making a how to video for the handle that should come out soon. Have also been working on a magazine repeater for bows, just for fun. That’ll be out there today or tomorrow
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72" is a good length. Many of my bows are within 66"-74". I like the low stack and they're good for accuracy and durability. Of course I haven't hunting with one yet.
Keep in mind that there can be standing waves along the length of the limb, just like in a vibrating string.
The only springs I've studied so far are modeled as massless, which is certainly not true for a bow, but hopefully I'll be able to do the math on this stuff in a few years.
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modeling and developing guidelines for bowmaking gives us all comparative benchmarks to share and improve from :)
to follow a bit better what you are hoping to do, could you give a bit more explanation of what frequency you are thinking about? would not each limb tend to set up a shock wave when returning home at its own frequency? Amplitudes being less or more noticeable?
I’ve really been throwing around my terms Willie, I haven’t thought this through all the way so hopefully someone can shoot some holes in my thinking. I’m talking about the spring frequency, assuming that bows are simple springs. Of course this isn’t true and might ruin the idea right on the spot.
I’m thinking the simplest way to measure this would be to ‘dry fire’ a limb (unbraced) from a few inches so you can measure the oscillation frequency (in other words predicting the dry fire speed by assuming the bow is a simple spring) If bows really were simple springs you would only have to hit the limb like a tuning fork but I think pulling a bit more will be more accurate.
Here’s what I think would have to hold true for the model to work. 1—early in tillering the frequency will be very high and drops as you tiller. 2—It’s possible to predict the frequency of a finished bow from the specifications, using a model from a large data pool (same as we do with mass) 3— A bow with too low a frequency judging by the model is not heavily stressed, and could be drawn farther, or made narrower, or shorter. Similarly a bow with too high a frequency is under built and will overwhelm itself.
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I think thickness would be a determinant and length also, at least length of the working section I believe. so many variables to consider. density etc.
A little off topic maybe, but could I ask? Would developing the model would be useful to bowyers of all skill levels? Or perhaps a way to investigate new designs?
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Nice bow
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More of this bow and how to make a textured handle in this style https://youtu.be/kOPGyK564Tc