Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Flight Bows => Topic started by: DC on September 11, 2020, 01:12:45 pm

Title: Arrow length vs draw length
Post by: DC on September 11, 2020, 01:12:45 pm
How do you decide between these measurements when you're making a bow? When I'm just shooting for speed I've found that DL is king but when you shoot for distance then aerodynamics rears it's head and a shorter skinnier arrow would maybe trump some of the DL's advantage. Shorter arrow could mean a shorter bow which would return quicker would it not? It seems to me that there is a whole lot of interdependencies going on here. So, how do you choose?
Title: Re: Arrow length vs draw length
Post by: willie on September 11, 2020, 01:34:29 pm
good flight arrows seem to be in demand for record breaking so I would think the bow needs to be built around the preferred arrow.


the broadhead class being a bit different, as it standardize arrows to make the game more about the bows
Title: Re: Arrow length vs draw length
Post by: DC on September 11, 2020, 01:44:19 pm
good flight arrows seem to be in demand for record breaking so I would think the bow needs to be built around the preferred arrow.

Granted, but you can have a very good arrow in 24" or 26" for example, but the 26" has those extra 2" of DL. Can that 2" less arrow length reduce the air resistance enough to negate the advantage of the 2" of DL?
Title: Re: Arrow length vs draw length
Post by: willie on September 11, 2020, 03:42:26 pm
it would be interesting to know what arrow lengths were used to consistently challenge and set the records in the class you are interested in. I don't know if the record book has the arrow specs, but certainly someone has an educated guess.

shorter arrows are stiffer for their diameter, and aerodynamic theory puts a lot of weight on the diameter factor in addition to less resistance overall for being shorter.

in addition to aerodynamic factors down range, the stiffness/spine is needed for minimizing fletching and having adequate early stabilization out of the bow.
at least, that is how I understand some of the factors.
which of the numerous requirements to make a winning shot is the one that needs the most attention in your set up might be difficult to determine without lots of testing.
Title: Re: Arrow length vs draw length
Post by: DC on September 11, 2020, 04:05:46 pm
Yes, I'm kind of assuming that it is mostly trial and error but I thought there might be some theories that may short cut it a bit.
Title: Re: Arrow length vs draw length
Post by: willie on September 11, 2020, 04:15:06 pm
theories can only be tested, but there might be a way to test arrows at less than full range that can useful.
Title: Re: Arrow length vs draw length
Post by: loefflerchuck on September 11, 2020, 09:40:04 pm
Build the bow, then build the arrows and tune them into the bow. If your shooting a 25" arrow, the bow should never be drawn more than 25" and the bow should be a length and design that is fully stressed, but not to the point of breaking down at 25". You need a great bow, but arrows are maybe more important. I broke a record last year and this year with the same bow and new arrow I shot it 35 yards further for a new record.
 I like how many people have a interest in flight. It would be great to have many more talented bowyers show up to add more challenge and fun to the events.
Title: Re: Arrow length vs draw length
Post by: loefflerchuck on September 11, 2020, 09:46:51 pm
Just fyi, all my records were set at about 27.5". Primitive class minimum arrow length is 23". Others have set records with various lengths. I would like to toy with shorter bows and draws.

"Granted, but you can have a very good arrow in 24" or 26" for example, but the 26" has those extra 2" of DL. Can that 2" less arrow length reduce the air resistance enough to negate the advantage of the 2" of DL?"

Yes or no, it's all in the bow and arrows made for it.
Title: Re: Arrow length vs draw length
Post by: PatM on September 12, 2020, 07:52:59 am
In the past a small overdraw shelf was often attached to the bow to allow a shorter arrow and a longer draw relative to the arrow.

 I believe that is still allowed in some classes.
Title: Re: Arrow length vs draw length
Post by: loefflerchuck on September 12, 2020, 08:57:39 am
Pat, it is allowed in Turkish and unlimited. Not sure about anywhere else. Overdraws are not allowed in the primitive class.
Title: Re: Arrow length vs draw length
Post by: PatM on September 12, 2020, 09:08:59 am
I think complex composite as well?   Or perhaps just the unlimited complex composite class.  If so it would be nice to see DC  enter one outside its class with a short overdraw.
Title: Re: Arrow length vs draw length
Post by: DC on September 12, 2020, 09:27:43 am
If so it would be nice to see DC  enter one outside its class with a short overdraw.
What does enter outside it's class mean?
Title: Re: Arrow length vs draw length
Post by: PatM on September 12, 2020, 10:32:28 am
Entering a simple composite in the complex composite class.  Or maybe putting an overdraw on a selfbow and entering a class that allows that. I believe you can enter in another class as long as you are at  a disadvantage.
Title: Re: Arrow length vs draw length
Post by: DC on September 12, 2020, 11:22:27 am
Ah, going up a class, gotcha, thanks :D
Title: Re: Arrow length vs draw length
Post by: bownarra on September 17, 2020, 12:27:43 am
I've found 24 inch arrows draw to 28 have done best for me.
Title: Re: Arrow length vs draw length
Post by: avcase on September 17, 2020, 03:00:02 pm
Entering a simple composite in the complex composite class.  Or maybe putting an overdraw on a selfbow and entering a class that allows that. I believe you can enter in another class as long as you are at  a disadvantage.

Yes, this is always an option. The complex composite rules allow 4” depth at the arrow pass, measured from the back of the bow to the arrow rest.  Additional shelf material can extend even further aft to act as a protective shield in case the arrow is accidentally drawn off the arrow rest and released.

Alan
Title: Re: Arrow length vs draw length
Post by: Selfbowman on December 31, 2020, 08:15:04 pm
Only in flight . Right Alan? I’ve seen broadheads mounted to where they can be overdrawn some. I here the click of the broadhead against the back of my bow on occasion. Risky but that’s a full draw. Arvin
Title: Re: Arrow length vs draw length
Post by: bjrogg on January 01, 2021, 11:02:17 am
Thanks for asking all these questions DC.
I’m interested in this and I have so many questions I don’t even know I have.
Bjrogg
Title: Re: Arrow length vs draw length
Post by: Selfbowman on January 03, 2021, 06:10:33 pm
Pat and all. The shelf - arrow rest is allowed to be 2” in-depth .This allows another 1-1/2  on our shorter arrows . That’s in selfbow and simple composite. Now you know why my handles are so big. Shorter arrow same draw.  Arvin