Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Mesophilic on May 05, 2020, 02:01:06 pm
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A couple of months ago I started this thread about a bamboo backed Ipe fail.
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,67596.msg949420.html#msg949420
Well, the guy gluing up the staves sent me a replacement and I got it finished up. He's pretty active on YouTube so if anyone is thinking about ordering on, PM me and I'll confirm who he is.
My ultimate goal here is to see if a bamboo backing will hold up to my ultra dry high elevation conditions without tooling up to work with bamboo backings and the stave was pretty affordable to have someone else glue it up.
There were two major issues with the bow blank on this second go around.
1) he again used Ipe with questionable grain runout on one of the limbs.
2) near the fade area of the upper limb, the Ipe belly was much thinner than the lower limb and had an aweful hinge from the get go.
Between these two issues the tiller came out with alot on inner limb bend as I didnt want to thin the Ipe too much out to where that runout started. It shoots with a little hand shock, but not too noticeable.
I'll email him and let him know my thoughts.
Anyway, 66" NtN and 52# @ 28". Shoots 550 gran arrow at 165fps average. The handle is built up with oak and cherry, the nocks are scrap pieces of stabilized oak, and the strike plate is piano key ivory.
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/e5c3df115d02522985ae2bd362743a75/de305f461e176960-8f/s2048x3072/ec06c6e5fcdf856d95d7957b3949c4bf93d51af4.jpg)
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/1de408246bae7677d2ae86547598b245/594958757fe530a0-21/s2048x3072/3ee76b2b57fb2f97e58f77a57ac483012aa5532d.jpg)
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/bb73a1502f7ca722b6404a9a419881a9/14bafad3c1f90569-77/s2048x3072/4b8897d63ebd93980bc5f3c31fc6a1e6d3e63b7c.jpg)
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/19ba59e327527b641187848d6d95ac8a/20081cbeb282e303-92/s2048x3072/acfb78adc851517b3849ed61c4e7714be94c3f0a.jpg)
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/0d0cd180e7a659891b4ef33ef19ee180/de6d41dacec411f5-90/s2048x3072/4d2aaa38f5986074bea5534b47c955be203f2f89.jpg)
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Too much bend about 6" above and below the handle and none beyond that. Each limb and each section of each limb should do their share of the work.
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You must be holding it upside down.
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That glue up hadle is purty.
The upper limb looks a little flat but in the pic its kinda hazy.
HH~
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Too much bend about 6" above and below the handle and none beyond that. Each limb and each section of each limb should do their share of the work.
I agree, just wasnt sure what to do about that ipe grain runout. Alot of lessons learned here. If it can hold up as our weather dries out to single digit humidity levels, then I'm thinking a properly tillered bamboo backed bow might be the way to go and may look in to commissioning one.
You must be holding it upside down.
Well, I shot it both ways for a few dozen arrows to see how it felt, and chose which limb felt better up. Then inlaid the strike plate.
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I meant that the worse hinge is in the top.
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Can we see an unbraced profile?
If you live in a dry climate you should try hickory, both selfbow and boo backed. Hickory shines at about 6% m/c.
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If you want a bow to survive in a dry climate, make sure it's built in one.
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Can we see an unbraced profile?
If you live in a dry climate you should try hickory, both selfbow and boo backed. Hickory shines at about 6% m/c.
Pic below as requested.
I've played with hickory a bit, and haven't been able to get much performance out of it. I haven't had hickory break on me yet so that's a good thing, but I can't seem to get a hickory selfbow abovr 10 gpp arrow faster than the high 150's fps. I know that's fine for a deer sub 20 yards but I have my sights set on elk one day. I think good chunk of that is I can't seem to master the art of heat bending recurves in to the tips.
As much as I want to make it work, making bows may not be my thing. Might have to consider procuring my dream bow another way.
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/4416b6801f996ef16a2b7fddd433fc4a/791722a84e709882-05/s2048x3072/d354ea429ba5cd6179dbbc2d239bc6eaa94150ab.jpg)
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There must be some other issue preventing better speed. Are you sure your Hickory is getting as dry as you think it should.
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Anyway, 66" NtN and 52# @ 28". Shoots 550 gran arrow at 165fps average.
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/0d0cd180e7a659891b4ef33ef19ee180/de6d41dacec411f5-90/s2048x3072/4d2aaa38f5986074bea5534b47c955be203f2f89.jpg)
It's almost incredible that the bow performs so well in spite of the hinge. It clearly has the tillering issue. The belly Ipe is way too thinner at the hinge. If anything, it has to be thicker where there is the grain runoff issue. The hinge will get worse over time. It has to be addressed.
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There must be some other issue preventing better speed. Are you sure your Hickory is getting as dry as you think it should.
My last hickory stave. My only testing option right now.
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/bd96c70568da498103874ad5aaa62b15/65f20732f07a3f7e-e4/s2048x3072/9fbf6fcfa13a5528be5db85a0ac82bc042f46a7a.jpg)
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What sort of design were you using and how was your tiller?
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What sort of design were you using and how was your tiller?
My best one is a 66" flat bow that BowEd helped me work out some specs. It's 60# at 28", and has thin rigid tips. Attempted to toast the belly but in hindsight I think I needed to keep the heat gun on it longer. I can't remember the exact numbers but it shot a 550 grain arrow right around 160 fps.
I got to thinking, and I do need a lower poundage bow for working on thumb release. How much more ipe could I safely tiller off of this bamboo backed ipe? Or should I just ride it out and keep shooting it to see if it fails at that hinge?
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I would not be concerned what that chrono says. Get the bow tillered correctly and if it turns out 35-40lbs itll shoot fine and you can hunt with it. The boo you have used looks un-planed? Would be good to have planed it out and have it thin where limb works and tips and thick in handle and fades. This goes a long way to proper tiller on a Boo backed R&D bow. Your bows profile looks good. Get the outer third of bow limbs working or that ipe will give it up on inner third.
Think that shape bow would do great with a Planed bamboo backing, a thin tapered hickory lam core and a osage belly (solid with riser section). Then glue up tiller like any other bow. Can glue reflex in or R&D. Just think Osage is better on compression side for belly wood. They are super fast and with that hickory lam in there are very forgiving. You dont have to R & D for the speed your looking either just glue in 3-4" of reflex and have at it.
Again with a solid belly section you got to make sure there is no grain run out to edges on belly side.
HH~
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A couple of months ago I started this thread about a bamboo backed Ipe fail.
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,67596.msg949420.html#msg949420
Well, the guy gluing up the staves sent me a replacement and I got it finished up. He's pretty active on YouTube so if anyone is thinking about ordering on, PM me and I'll confirm who he is.
Exactly why would anyone order something from this guy since he doesn't seem to know what he is doing............
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I was hoping he meant that he would reveal the name as a warning.
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Mesophilic....That looks like the stave I sent you.At 5% moisture at your place your hickory bows should be shooting a lot faster than 160 fps.I imagine it did'nt check any yet though.Sure would like to see you get a shot at a local elk.
I hope it is'nt costing you much getting bows from that other fella.It's no wonder it is hand shocky.Poor tapering on glue up there.It should come off form damn near in tlller.Looks like an awful thick backing of bamboo on it.
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Exactly why would anyone order something from this guy since he doesn't seem to know what he is doing............
It might not have been the gule-up issue at all. Hasty and incorrect tillering can ruin a perfectly acceptable bamboo backed bow blank. In my limited experience with bamboo backed bows, the deflexed fade area belly can be difficult to tiller and it can be suddenly overpowered by the bamboo backing, especially if the backing is comparatively too thick for the belly there.
For any inexperienced person who is too eager to make the bow blank bend, it would be better to start tillering from the bottom of the upper third to the bottom of the middle third of the limb first. Even there it would be better to use the long and even strokes of a scraper. Most strokes must be as long as possible and at least almost half the length of each limb.
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A couple of months ago I started this thread about a bamboo backed Ipe fail.
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,67596.msg949420.html#msg949420
Well, the guy gluing up the staves sent me a replacement and I got it finished up. He's pretty active on YouTube so if anyone is thinking about ordering on, PM me and I'll confirm who he is.
Exactly why would anyone order something from this guy since he doesn't seem to know what he is doing............
I'll throw the name out there...Kramer Ammons...you can find him on Youtube and by his website. I took a chance and won't do that again. He seemes very passionate, and I've spent more money on crappy staves than he charged. Live and learn I suppose. To his credit, he sent me this second one with no hassles and even ate the shipping charge.
Mesophilic....That looks like the stave I sent you.At 5% moisture at your place your hickory bows should be shooting a lot faster than 160 fps.I imagine it did'nt check any yet though.Sure would like to see you get a shot at a local elk.
I hope it is'nt costing you much getting bows from that other fella.It's no wonder it is hand shocky.Poor tapering on glue up there.It should come off form damn near in tlller.Looks like an awful thick backing of bamboo on it.
Yeah, it's that last hickory stave you sent me. I'm about ready to make some saw dust with it. Bern a challenge with the covid homeschooling, my kid serms to need some sort of attention right at the moment I need to concentrate on something.
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Well, gentlemen this is about to be a moot point as I'm about 60 seconds away from chopping up this bow for the wood pile.
In trying to get rid of that hinge, thr ipe on part of the limb is almost as thim as the bamboo and it's maybe at about 20# draw. Don't trust it enough now to let Little-philic shoot it.
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....Looks like an awful thick backing of bamboo on it.
...and that fact will make bad things worse!