Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Woodely on August 04, 2019, 11:02:43 pm

Title: Set over time
Post by: Woodely on August 04, 2019, 11:02:43 pm
I just noticed that my daily shooter has taken 1/4" more set than the bottom limb.  It has about 3000 shots in 'er draw.   Any reason for this and will it get worse.  I examined it and cant see any structural issues like lam separation or chrysalis.
Title: Re: Set over time
Post by: bradsmith2010 on August 05, 2019, 12:09:27 am
Could be moisture,,,sometimes bows shift a bit over time with hard use,,,or being braced for long sessions,..could have been overdrawn?  Sometimes it takes a while for a bow to settle in,,,
Title: Re: Set over time
Post by: bownarra on August 05, 2019, 01:03:16 am
Not exercising it enough during tillering. Or exercising it differently than when actually shooting it.
Title: Re: Set over time
Post by: Del the cat on August 05, 2019, 02:31:13 am
All springs take set... even steel ones... if they are being used.
Measure an old valve spring from an engine against a new one... set.
Del
Title: Re: Set over time
Post by: JNystrom on August 05, 2019, 05:34:15 am
The set shouldn't be concentrated in one spot, like in bottom limb this case, but preferably spread out the whole bow. If bow takes uneven set after finishing in tiller tree, most of the times a big influence is how you grip the bow and where do you pull the string.
I've had this same happen to me couple of times just this summer (made a lot of bows  ;D).  Fix for this is to start to tiller the bows as you would shoot them. This means your mounting spot cant be the same as you winch pulling spot. The pulley should be located couple of centimeters higher in the upper limb than the mounting spot. Or you can give the bow a bit positive tiller.
Title: Re: Set over time
Post by: Santanasaur on August 05, 2019, 05:58:01 am
Almost all my early bows were taking more set in the lower limb. At first I thought it was from stringing step through, but exclusive upside down stringing would lead to the same problem. My bows would look even on the tiller tree but in the mirror the lower limb always seemed weak. Same as others have said changing my tiller tree to mimic how I pull the bow as well as double checking tiller in the mirror seem to have evened out the wear.
Title: Re: Set over time
Post by: Dances with squirrels on August 05, 2019, 07:57:36 am
It might not even be the case here, but training and 'balancing' a bow's limbs on the tillering tree or stick while holding it differently than it will be drawn in the hand can certainly lead to shifting tiller and more set. And I'll bet it's a matter of degree... the farther our tree's fulcrums are from the our fulcrums, the greater the chances of sour effects when we shoot it.

If set up to mimic the archer's holds, the tillering tree reveals dynamic imbalance from the beginning which means quite accurate limb balance relative to the archer's fulcrums can be realized sooner, and the limbs will be tillered and exercised, trained to flex, while balanced in the way it will be shot. There's no guessing at what appropriate measurements at brace height might be, they're simply a result, and it just makes everything more stable and predictable when shooting gets under way. There are other great benefits too. It's good to see more folks advocating it nowadays.
Title: Re: Set over time
Post by: George Tsoukalas on August 05, 2019, 08:15:31 am
I think to comes from the split finger draw.

After I am done tillering on my rope and pulley, then I have someone take a full draw digi and evaluate tiller or I draw in front of a window at night which acts as a mirror. I am to have the bottom limb about 1/4 stiffer.

That usually but not always wards off the bottom limb taking more set.

Jawge
Title: Re: Set over time
Post by: bradsmith2010 on August 05, 2019, 01:15:30 pm
well shooting the bow alot,, and then fine tuning can be helpful,,
Title: Re: Set over time
Post by: Woodely on August 05, 2019, 04:35:46 pm
I think to comes from the split finger draw.

Jawge
I would say that shooting 3 under will cause more set.   I just noticed this recently,  although another person was shooting the bow,  maybe they accidently shot it 3 under or held draw for to long of a period.   The set is even across the full length, no hinging or anything drastic like that.

Not exercising it enough during tillering.  I spent countless times exercising this bow.  It  only took 1/4" of set.  After  3000 shots I could pike it maybe.  It's 67" NTN take it down to 68" and re-tiller it.   I hate to pike, its a good shooter,  sometime piking could cause some unforeseen disasters like breakage.
Title: Re: Set over time
Post by: bentstick54 on August 05, 2019, 07:03:20 pm
If it’s still a good shooter for 1/4” of set I would leave it alone if it was mine. If you feel it is effecting the shootability , maybe retiller top limb alittle to match bottom limb and maybe reduce the risk of bottom limb incurring any more set than it already has. Just a thought. More experienced bowyers on here than me for sure. Possibility?
Title: Re: Set over time
Post by: George Tsoukalas on August 05, 2019, 07:29:56 pm
I agree. Just enjoy it as is. Jawge
Title: Re: Set over time
Post by: scp on August 05, 2019, 07:51:06 pm
Set is never good. But what really matters is the speed. If you have to pull it just a little more at the same draw weight to get the original speed, you might have a more accurate bow now.
Title: Re: Set over time
Post by: Badger on August 05, 2019, 08:48:41 pm
Quarter inch offset after 3000 shots I would not give a second thought to
Title: Re: Set over time
Post by: bownarra on August 06, 2019, 12:50:24 am
I think to comes from the split finger draw.

Jawge
I would say that shooting 3 under will cause more set.   I just noticed this recently,  although another person was shooting the bow,  maybe they accidently shot it 3 under or held draw for to long of a period.   The set is even across the full length, no hinging or anything drastic like that.

Not exercising it enough during tillering.  I spent countless times exercising this bow.  It  only took 1/4" of set.  After  3000 shots I could pike it maybe.  It's 67" NTN take it down to 68" and re-tiller it.   I hate to pike, its a good shooter,  sometime piking could cause some unforeseen disasters like breakage.

Exercising it DIFFERNTLY on the tree...….
Why do people only pick the bit they disagree with.....:)
How exactly are you going to pike it and add an inch of length at the same time?
3 under will again strain the bow slightly differently it will NOT make the bow take more set though....
Never let anybody else shoot your bow if you don't want the above to happen.
Title: Re: Set over time
Post by: Eric Krewson on August 06, 2019, 07:24:07 am
Wow! lots of weird answers.  Almost all bows take set over time and often it is the bottom limb that starts the process, 1/4" is the same as "0" in my book. Back when I made equal length limbs a weak lower limb was common after a good bit of shooting I have piked a few when the weakness negatively affected the tiller.

The only bows I have made that didn't take set over time were reflexed bamboo backed bows or bows I made from osage that was that special dense, microscopic early ring stuff we run across every now.

I have really slowed down on my bow making but found my latest heat toasted limbs seldom take any set.
Title: Re: Set over time
Post by: Woodely on August 06, 2019, 02:00:09 pm
I think to comes from the split finger draw.

Jawge
I would say that shooting 3 under will cause more set.   I just noticed this recently,  although another person was shooting the bow,  maybe they accidently shot it 3 under or held draw for to long of a period.   The set is even across the full length, no hinging or anything drastic like that.

Not exercising it enough during tillering.  I spent countless times exercising this bow.  It  only took 1/4" of set.  After  3000 shots I could pike it maybe.  It's 67" NTN take it down to 68" and re-tiller it.   I hate to pike, its a good shooter,  sometime piking could cause some unforeseen disasters like breakage.

Exercising it DIFFERNTLY on the tree...….
Why do people only pick the bit they disagree with.....:)
How exactly are you going to pike it and add an inch of length at the same time?
3 under will again strain the bow slightly differently it will NOT make the bow take more set though....
Never let anybody else shoot your bow if you don't want the above to happen.

"add an inch of length at the same time?"  what the Malarkey ya talking about, adding an inch....and yes shooting 3 under does place more stress on the bottom limb and can make it take more set..!

"Exercising it DIFFERNTLY on the tree...…."  in what way, like I said the bow was exercised properly and lots of it...…...
Title: Re: Set over time
Post by: Woodely on August 06, 2019, 02:02:37 pm
Wow! lots of weird answers.  Almost all bows take set over time and often it is the bottom limb that starts the process, 1/4" is the same as "0" in my book. Back when I made equal length limbs a weak lower limb was common after a good bit of shooting I have piked a few when the weakness negatively affected the tiller.

The only bows I have made that didn't take set over time were reflexed bamboo backed bows or bows I made from osage that was that special dense, microscopic early ring stuff we run across every now.

I have really slowed down on my bow making but found my latest heat toasted limbs seldom take any set.
What I meant to say that the bow took a total set of 1/4" after it was finished.  Now the lower limb has taken an additional 1/4" .. But I guess after 3000 shots I should not complain.  Thanks for your insight Eric.
Title: Re: Set over time
Post by: DC on August 06, 2019, 02:12:21 pm
It's 67" NTN take it down to 68" and re-tiller it. 
This is what Bowanarra was referring to. The math doesn't work ;)
Title: Re: Set over time
Post by: Badger on August 06, 2019, 04:31:42 pm
I would actually consider the Opie's question more of a sneak bragged in a real question 1/2 inch set in a bowl with 3000 shots is fantastic
Title: Re: Set over time
Post by: bradsmith2010 on August 06, 2019, 06:05:56 pm
Wow :)