Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Woodely on April 09, 2019, 01:29:27 pm
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Does an R/D bow out perform a recurve or a bow with only Deflex . Is there even such a bow with just a little deflex only..?
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I think so but it's probably more of a gut feeling. You can put as much or as little deflex as you want. I usually use about 10° deflex. I tried one with 40° but it's too unstable to get a string on.
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Did you mean Reflex??????
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Deflex in the handle and reflex in the limb.
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I think so but it's probably more of a gut feeling. You can put as much or as little deflex as you want. I usually use about 10° deflex. I tried one with 40° but it's too unstable to get a string on.
That profile would be a prime candidate for short wide working limbs. Bet if you widen the first 8 inches, ypu would have a super fast bow.
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It's a little piece of Hazel. Only 1 1/8" wide. It's been in the corner of shame for a few(quite a few)months. One day when I'm feeling masochistic I'll break out the heat gun and see if I can get it to hold a string. Guys got to do something silly every once in a while.
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It's a little piece of Hazel. Only 1 1/8" wide. It's been in the corner of shame for a few(quite a few)months. One day when I'm feeling masochistic I'll break out the heat gun and see if I can get it to hold a string. Guys got to do something silly every once in a while.
From what Badger has been teaching me, this is a good design, it just needs shorter bending area... aka, molly.
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Did you mean Reflex??????
Nope.. I mean just a little bit of Deflex in the handle area. "You can put as much or as little deflex as you want." Ya but to much Deflex would make for a low draw bow. My question was not really answered.
-R/D
-Reflex (curved tips)
-Deflex basically a flat bow with deflex in the handle.
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Just thinking out loud...Without the reflex, the string angle is gonna suffer in addition to starting behind the handle to begin with. Stack weight would be an issue. Inefficient I would think without the reflex.
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I made a couple deflex bows. No reflex. Real sweet smooth drawing. Not slow either, the deflex allows a thicker limb to compensate for the lower early draw weight, and thicker is quicker.
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Just thinking out loud...Without the reflex, the string angle is gonna suffer in addition to starting behind the handle to begin with. Stack weight would be an issue. Inefficient I would think without the reflex.
Exactly that's what I thought but just asking anyway, maybe if early draw weight is sufficient like Sleek mentioned.
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Just thinking out loud...Without the reflex, the string angle is gonna suffer in addition to starting behind the handle to begin with. Stack weight would be an issue. Inefficient I would think without the reflex.
Exactly that's what I thought but just asking anyway, maybe if early draw weight is sufficient like Sleek mentioned.
Early draw weight will be lower. It has to be, but, you will see that with a deflex of say, 2 inches, it will be a nice shooter. Much more than 3 and you get into bad losses that you need reflex to fix.
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If you have made some and they worked well, fair enough. Just thinking through it, I don't see how string angle wouldn't be an issue. Keeping the the draw short would help, but that comes with it's own limitations. I would think that some reflex on the design fixes the string angle issue and allows you to use a longer power stroke. I would think that is an improvement. Never made a bow with only deflex so again, just thinking out loud.
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String angle isnt affrcted, the angle at brace and full draw are the same as a reflexed bow. The difference is lower early draw, but it picks up pretty quickly, quicker than a straight bow probably.
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Please don't take this as argumentative because I don't mean for it to be. I am not any kind of engineer or physicist (lord knows), but I cant see how string angle wouldn't come into play. Yes with only 2 inches of deflex you minimize that, but the tips still start behind the handle by 2 inches. With no reflex the angle is there to some degree, and it gets worse as you draw the bow. Early draw weight might offset some of that, but wouldn't early draw weight AND some reflex, like the Duoflex for example make for a more efficient bow?
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Well I thought while it was out I would pull it. ;D ;D
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DC,,I dont think I could fix that one,, (-S
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DC, this is why we can't have nice things.
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Just thinking out loud...Without the reflex, the string angle is gonna suffer in addition to starting behind the handle to begin with. Stack weight would be an issue. Inefficient I would think without the reflex.
Exactly that's what I thought but just asking anyway, maybe if early draw weight is sufficient like Sleek mentioned.
there are primitive bows with deflexed tips. none with deflexed handles come to mind.
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Egyptian bows are deflexed in the handle aren't they.
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I found this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xia09Ix-NJs
Mike Loades talking about Egyptian bows. They are actually RD's with the limbs straight at brace height.
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I found this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xia09Ix-NJs
Mike Loades talking about Egyptian bows. They are actually RD's with the limbs straight at brace height.
Nothing primitive about them though.
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Just thinking out loud...Without the reflex, the string angle is gonna suffer in addition to starting behind the handle to begin with. Stack weight would be an issue. Inefficient I would think without the reflex.
Exactly that's what I thought but just asking anyway, maybe if early draw weight is sufficient like Sleek mentioned.
there are primitive bows with deflexed tips. none with deflexed handles come to mind.
There was a deflexed handle bow retrieved from a lake in Italy.
Mohegan bows were also deflexed.
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Here's an R/D I'm currently working on, has a bit of heat shaping left before tiller. The deflex is natural, and I'm thinking of heating some of it out. What do you guys think?
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h66/jayres83/bow%20pics%202/20190409_212739_zpsfukgw3ex.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/jayres83/media/bow%20pics%202/20190409_212739_zpsfukgw3ex.jpg.html)
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The bow found in Italy...some speculation that the archeologists had the bow backwards. If we are talking about the same one.
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Here's an R/D I'm currently working on, has a bit of heat shaping left before tiller. The deflex is natural, and I'm thinking of heating some of it out. What do you guys think?
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h66/jayres83/bow%20pics%202/20190409_212739_zpsfukgw3ex.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/jayres83/media/bow%20pics%202/20190409_212739_zpsfukgw3ex.jpg.html)
Leave it, RD's are cool :D As long as you have some net reflex.
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Mohegan bows were also deflexed.
Pat, do you think the mohegan bows were deflexed by design or disuse? the mohegans had access to some decent bowmaking woods whereas the deflexed designs I was thinking of came from areas where poor wood was used out of necessity.
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Are you talking deflexed handles or tips?
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Well I thought while it was out I would pull it. ;D ;D
Oops! Methinks, something went wrong somewhere (--) >:D! Hopefully, I won't ever have that problem!
Hawkdancer
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DC..I suppose i should have made it more clear,who and what i directed my question to..
Does an R/D bow out perform a recurve or a bow with only Deflex..
The "only Deflex" part left me to question,if Reflex was meant,instead of Deflex?
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When you look at the best of the best which is probably the closest way to compare styles you won't see all that much difference. I think the recurve has a slight edge. A bow with only deflex will not be a good performer. I have seen a lot of decent performers with the tips even with the back or even slight on the string follow side but I have never seen a real top performer with the tips less than about 2" behind the back.
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When you look at the best of the best which is probably the closest way to compare styles you won't see all that much difference. I think the recurve has a slight edge. A bow with only deflex will not be a good performer. I have seen a lot of decent performers with the tips even with the back or even slight on the string follow side but I have never seen a real top performer with the tips less than about 2" behind the back.
I have made only 2 deflex bows, because thats how they grew. I figured the deflex in them would offset any set they may take and went to work. They weren't fast around 160s, but the were still good performing bows. You werent going to win any flight shoot for certain, but a deer wouldnt have known the difference.
These tqo biws are what got me to start considering using deflex to compensate for set, and of course recurves keep string tension up and add to performance.
I
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Please don't take this as argumentative because I don't mean for it to be. I am not any kind of engineer or physicist (lord knows), but I cant see how string angle wouldn't come into play. Yes with only 2 inches of deflex you minimize that, but the tips still start behind the handle by 2 inches. With no reflex the angle is there to some degree, and it gets worse as you draw the bow. Early draw weight might offset some of that, but wouldn't early draw weight AND some reflex, like the Duoflex for example make for a more efficient bow?
CALM DOWN!
Kidding, no need to sweat here man, we are just talking and spit balling. No offense perceived. That said, im gonna need you to define what you mean by string angle? Because you and i may be talking about two different things. Im talking about the angle the string and the tips make. What are you referencing?
I will add this. Yes, recurves at the tip are best, and it happens to be my favorite design. And yes, the recurves help pick up that early draw weight, but that is a function of how far the tips have moved to get to brace, not how much they move once drawn. String tension comes from how prestressed the bow is when braced.
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By string angle, I mean the angle of the string in relation to the limb tip, so I think we are talking about the same thing. The greater that angle the less leverage. The string angle on such a bow, would render it less efficient than the same bow with some recurve added to the tips. It would also add string tension and increase early draw weight. I think you could also have a lower brace height with the tips recurved which adds additional benefits. Anyways, that would be my thoughts on the op's question.
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Well I thought while it was out I would pull it. ;D ;D
Is that a bow you just completed.... What a drag >:(
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Sorry Woodley, I kind of misread your question and got side tracked. I would think that deflex only would increase the draw length you can get from a given piece of wood by decreasing the strain. ie. same amount of strain for a longer draw length. The draw weight will be whatever you tiller it to be. They are easier to brace. I really think that you have to combine it with reflexed limbs to gain any performance.
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Well I thought while it was out I would pull it. ;D ;D
Is that a bow you just completed.... What a drag >:(
No it's been kicking around for a while. It was kind of a test of design and Hazel at the same time. Now I don't know if the design or the wood was at fault. Or maybe even the bowyer ;D ;D
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Are you talking deflexed handles or tips?
I dont know, what ever deflex was in the mohegan bow you mentioned in the post previous
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The Mohegan bows I am familiar with had deflex in the handle and reflex tips. Maybe there are examples of them without the reflex, I don’t know, but Hamm and Alleys book shows it as a pretty typical R/D bow. From memory.
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Are you talking deflexed handles or tips?
I dont know, what ever deflex was in the mohegan bow you mentioned in the post previous
They have a classic D/R shape although the handle is much thinner and almost certainly somewhat working. I doubt they were all bows that had massive handle set which had been rectified by having the tips reflexed.