Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: IrishJay on December 13, 2018, 02:43:00 pm

Title: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: IrishJay on December 13, 2018, 02:43:00 pm
Stopped at Home Depot today and picked up a 6' length of red oak 1×3. Nice straight grain, no knots. I'm thinking a 68" bow with rigid handle around 40lbs. What limb shape would you guys recommend?
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: bushboy on December 13, 2018, 03:27:49 pm
4" handle,fades at 1-1/2,2"wide for half the length.you may come in a little heavy,but better than light!make sure to radius all the edges,you may want to build up the handle though?
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: IrishJay on December 13, 2018, 03:31:09 pm
I have a nice piece of white ash to use for a handle/riser block. I was thinking 2" wide from the fades tapering to 5/8" starting 10" from the tips.
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: Pat B on December 13, 2018, 03:36:59 pm
I have a hickory backed red oak bow that is a 2 1/4" at the fades pyramid. Pyramid would be a good choice. A semi-pyramid, 1 3/4" to 2" wide with parallel limbs out 8" from the handle then tapering to the tips.
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: IrishJay on December 13, 2018, 03:39:51 pm
Pat, if I do a 4" handle with 2" fades on either end, would that 8"start from the handle, or from the end of the fades?
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: Pat B on December 13, 2018, 03:48:58 pm
From the fades. You could go 4" or 6" too. For a new bowyer the extra length would be more forgiving. If the limbs seems to be getting too thin as you're tillering you can narrow the width and/or shorten the parallel portion.
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: IrishJay on December 13, 2018, 03:58:59 pm
If I do a glued on riser block for extra thickness in the handle can I get away with a cut in shelf? Not looking for center shot, but maybe 1/3 the hand width.
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: Pat B on December 13, 2018, 04:27:21 pm
Yes you can. I prefer to make a bulbous style handle and add a rest at the arrow pass. I think it is a safer application with the same affect. You could probably do it with a more traditional handle.
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: bushboy on December 13, 2018, 05:08:04 pm
Red oak can really vary in bend resistance within the species.the shiny waxy stuff I found to be better than the more porus!not sure but a lot of new guys struggle to keep their handles from popping off.pat b did a really good build along a while back,I believe it hickory backed lemon wood(degame),maybe it's still around?good luck,remember the longer the bow in some cases have a lower draw weight because less wood is working.
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: timmyd on December 14, 2018, 07:13:12 am
good luck with it. I can honestly say I have never got a board bow to stay together. I know they are popular with some people but I have never been able to make one work. The money I put into boards over the years, I could have got a nice stave lol
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: Knoll on December 14, 2018, 01:12:32 pm
For a 1st, 2nd, or even 3rd bow I'd encourage use of pyramid or near-pyramid design.
Ideal tiller for pyramid is "arc of a circle" and, for me, it's much easier to see that tiller than the elliptical tiller you'd want for limbs that were constant width for significant distance.
Also, because arc of circle is what you're after with pyramid, use of Tillering Gizmo is ideal. That simple lil tool virtually guarantees no hinges and maximizes odds of decent tiller. Google "tillering gizmo" if unfamiliar with this tool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqvwUqn-EFQ

Re the handle/fades riser block . . . I would encourage use of 2" fades, or more, especially for first bows. I would glue on a riser that yields total (limb board + riser block) 1.25 - 1.5" thick/height handle . . . personal preference.
To avoid riser popping off, design fades in such a way that last 1/2" or so of fade is melded into the limb. Don't simply have entire fade sitting on top of your red oak. I'll try to find pic of what am trying to say.
BE SURE you have good mating glue surfaces between your limb board and riser board. Particularly if ya plan to use pva type glue such as Titebond.

Good luck!


(https://i.imgur.com/7L6Gacs.jpg)
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: Bayou Ben on December 14, 2018, 01:48:10 pm
Good advice so far. 
I really like Knoll's advice.  I would just say if you intend to do a cut in shelf I would go for a total handle thickness of 1.5". 
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: IrishJay on December 14, 2018, 02:18:44 pm
I've got close to 2" with the piece of white ash I glued on, that will probably come down closer to 1.5" as I shape the handle with the old ferrier's rasp.
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: Pat B on December 14, 2018, 03:02:03 pm
Just be sure there is enough "meat" around where the window will be cut out and radius your cuts and round over all edges. Sharp edges and abrupt cut outs are good places for the crack demons to show their trade.
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: IrishJay on December 14, 2018, 03:39:52 pm
I rip cut the board down to 2" wide last night and glued and clamped the riser block. I'll probably shape the handle and cut the taper into the limbs either tomorrow evening or Sunday morning. So should I go true pyramid pr semi-pyramid? Keeping in mind that 2" width has already been cut.
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: Knoll on December 14, 2018, 03:45:22 pm
I rip cut the board down to 2" wide last night and glued and clamped the riser block. I'll probably shape the handle and cut the taper into the limbs either tomorrow evening or Sunday morning. So should I go true pyramid pr semi-pyramid? Keeping in mind that 2" width has already been cut.

User preference, imo.
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: Knoll on December 14, 2018, 04:23:09 pm
Correction due to "senior moment" re my preferred handle thickness.   :-\
1.25 to 1.5" . . . not 1".    O:)
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: bubby on December 15, 2018, 09:57:55 pm
Red oak board, 2" at the fades, I think I posted the specs a while back. Pyramid design is a great one for a board bow. I have a build a long in the how to section
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: bubby on December 15, 2018, 09:58:37 pm
Wrong pic I'll fix that
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: bubby on December 15, 2018, 10:00:41 pm
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,64592.msg908076.html#msg908076
Here's the link
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: IrishJay on December 16, 2018, 12:30:54 pm
I went with the true pyramid. Will be doing some handle shaping and edge radiusing today, then onto tiller. The other 2 staves in the pic are black cherry, both roughed out from the same log today.
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: George Tsoukalas on December 17, 2018, 11:23:00 am
Good. Have fun. Jawge
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: IrishJay on December 19, 2018, 07:53:16 pm
Been sick for a few days which has slowed my progress, but I got back into the shop for a while this evening. Finished up the handle and the tip overlays. Tomorrow's goal is to do some sanding on the limbs, cut in the nocks and get it on the tillering rig.

(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h66/jayres83/Bow%20Pics/20181219_213154_zpsoblifcwm.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/jayres83/media/Bow%20Pics/20181219_213154_zpsoblifcwm.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: IrishJay on December 20, 2018, 06:37:22 pm
Linen backing applied, tomorrow I tiller.
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h66/jayres83/Bow%20Pics/20181220_204210_zpspseufkzk.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/jayres83/media/Bow%20Pics/20181220_204210_zpspseufkzk.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: Knoll on December 20, 2018, 06:54:57 pm
I allow at least 48 hours in the house for moisture introduced by backing process to move out of the limbs.
Good luck!
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: bubby on December 20, 2018, 09:45:36 pm
I find it's better to tiller first, then do the handle shaping
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: IrishJay on December 21, 2018, 09:51:46 am
Linen on one limb sanded

(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h66/jayres83/Bow%20Pics/20181221_115519_zpsrsoso9yq.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/jayres83/media/Bow%20Pics/20181221_115519_zpsrsoso9yq.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: IrishJay on December 21, 2018, 05:09:33 pm
Makin' shavin's! I had it braced, but it was a little uneven (top limb stiff) so I didnt want to leave it that way long enough for a pic. More to come after dinner. One question I should have thought to ask before hand. Is 8" brace height about right? Bow is 70" over all, 68" ntn, using an AMO 68" string.

(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h66/jayres83/Bow%20Pics/Screenshot_20181221-191153_Gallery_zpsott1qxk2.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/jayres83/media/Bow%20Pics/Screenshot_20181221-191153_Gallery_zpsott1qxk2.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: TimBo on December 21, 2018, 05:29:16 pm
Eight inches, assuming you are measuring from string to deepest part of grip, is pretty high for a self bow even when it is closer to finished.  For now I would do less, maybe a lot less if you have a ways to go on weight/tiller.
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: IrishJay on December 21, 2018, 05:33:22 pm
That's to the belly of the limbs right at the fades, I had a brain fart and didnt even think to measure to the handle.
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: IrishJay on December 21, 2018, 05:43:56 pm
Ok to the spot on the handle where the heel of the bow hand sits its 7" braced.
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: Knoll on December 21, 2018, 06:53:43 pm
6" would be plenty.
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: IrishJay on December 21, 2018, 07:40:50 pm
Here she is, 39.4lbs @ 28", 7" brace. I still have a good bit of finishing work to do, and I'm going to toast the belly, hopefully bumping the draw weight up into the low to mid 40's in the process. So......everybody tell me what I did wrong ;)
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h66/jayres83/Bow%20Pics/20181221_213720_zpsdypjfmu6.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/jayres83/media/Bow%20Pics/20181221_213720_zpsdypjfmu6.jpg.html)

(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h66/jayres83/Bow%20Pics/20181221_213849_zpspox2oxyt.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/jayres83/media/Bow%20Pics/20181221_213849_zpspox2oxyt.jpg.html)

(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h66/jayres83/Bow%20Pics/20181221_213743_zpsmbwfbghc.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/jayres83/media/Bow%20Pics/20181221_213743_zpsmbwfbghc.jpg.html)

(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h66/jayres83/Bow%20Pics/20181221_214141_zpsbtfq7mh1.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/jayres83/media/Bow%20Pics/20181221_214141_zpsbtfq7mh1.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: Pat B on December 21, 2018, 08:21:11 pm
Tiller looks good however the outer portion of the upper limb looks stiff.
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: IrishJay on December 21, 2018, 08:36:45 pm
Yeah I messed with that after the pic was taken, with a little more shave off that stiff section and a toasted belly I ended up with 37lbs @ 28"
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: Knoll on December 22, 2018, 05:55:22 am
Congrats, sir.
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: Eric Krewson on December 22, 2018, 06:11:22 am
Like Pat said, still a little stiff on the last foot or so of the top limb, not much. I would give it a few scrapes from the red garage door release handle back through the fade, that area is pretty straight as well.
Title: Re: Red Oak 1x3
Post by: George Tsoukalas on December 22, 2018, 07:10:38 pm
Congratulations on your first bow. Jawge