Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Taxus brevifolia on October 15, 2018, 03:29:53 pm

Title: AGHHHHHHHHGH!!!!!!
Post by: Taxus brevifolia on October 15, 2018, 03:29:53 pm
I can't believe what I've done. I already went through the initial shock at the realization I've turn a very promising piece of wood into a kid's bow...

Get this: with just sandpaper, no kidding, I screwed this up with sand paper

I got a little too deep at a handle fade, and by the time I made the whole limb bend evenly the draw weight is less than four lbs at 12" with almost no bend in the other limb. I wouldn't draw it with uneven limbs, but hell it's ruined anyway, so I pulled it a foot with the scale to get a number

So here's where I'm at. I'm not going to waste any more time kicking myself in the a$$. Time to start the next one RIGHT NOW.

Just to be clear: am I correct to assume adding sinew back won't add enough draw weight to make this a good deer bow, will it? I mean is it it worth it to finish the thing?
Title: Re: AGHHHHHHHHGH!!!!!!
Post by: stuckinthemud on October 15, 2018, 03:34:08 pm
Owch.
You could add a backing strip and get some weight back, maybe go for a tri-lam with peri-reflex and call it an experiment??
Title: Re: AGHHHHHHHHGH!!!!!!
Post by: Strichev on October 15, 2018, 03:41:47 pm
That's always sad but you know - if you make bows you ruin bows. I always try and remember myself that wood is a renewable resource and start another project. I wouldn't bother with it. Sinew, lams and such can better be used on a proper undamaged wood.
Title: Re: AGHHHHHHHHGH!!!!!!
Post by: Taxus brevifolia on October 15, 2018, 04:37:46 pm
I've got some yew thats been drying since Feb, maybe I'll start it a little early. It's pretty dry
Title: Re: AGHHHHHHHHGH!!!!!!
Post by: dylanholderman on October 15, 2018, 05:38:30 pm
sorry for your loss.
but its still worth finishing for tiller practice if nothing else, and if it works out find a kid in your neighborhood to give it to.
Title: Re: AGHHHHHHHHGH!!!!!!
Post by: BowEd on October 15, 2018, 05:48:06 pm
Maybe you are doing this but here's what worked for me in the beginning.Get a humidity and temperature gauge.Rough out a bow to 3/4" thick full width limbs.Take it in your house.Let it dry.When it quits losing weight.Wait 1/3 the time more it quit losing weight and then make a bow.It'll lose a tad more yet.I would'nt begin any big bending past floor tiller above 12%.Get it to at least 9% then make a bow.
Here's a moisture/heat graph to go by.
(https://i.imgur.com/Uv5YQMH.jpg)
Title: Re: AGHHHHHHHHGH!!!!!!
Post by: DC on October 15, 2018, 06:44:13 pm
Sorry, I have to ask. What kind of sandpaper are you using that will take off that much wood? Even with a power sander you would have to stay in the same spot for a long time.
Title: Re: AGHHHHHHHHGH!!!!!!
Post by: Taxus brevifolia on October 15, 2018, 06:53:01 pm
Just 80 grit from home Depot and a rubber sanding block.

Don't know my own strength I guess
Title: Re: AGHHHHHHHHGH!!!!!!
Post by: George Tsoukalas on October 15, 2018, 07:12:39 pm
There are buildalongs on my site. Take a peek.
http://traditionalarchery101.com
Jawge
Title: Re: AGHHHHHHHHGH!!!!!!
Post by: Taxus brevifolia on October 15, 2018, 07:17:32 pm
Thank you Sir I'll check it out

I'm considering this stave, but I don't know.

https://youtu.be/iHQlo1h8GOE
Title: Re: AGHHHHHHHHGH!!!!!!
Post by: bushboy on October 16, 2018, 02:17:30 am
I would go with a bamboo backing,it may surprise you!
Title: Re: AGHHHHHHHHGH!!!!!!
Post by: Eric Krewson on October 16, 2018, 07:54:59 am
Do you use a tillering gizmo?
Title: Re: AGHHHHHHHHGH!!!!!!
Post by: Pat B on October 16, 2018, 08:33:13 am
What kind of wood is it? How dry was the wood while you were tillering?
 I'd think you would have to really bare down to over tiller a limb with sandpaper. At least I would. Keeping track of where you are with each limb as you tiller is a major part of tillering.
Title: Re: AGHHHHHHHHGH!!!!!!
Post by: Taxus brevifolia on October 16, 2018, 01:15:57 pm
What's a tillering Gizmo?

Gentlemen, these are all reasonable points.
Here's the total pathology, and I'm grateful there's enough interest here to warrant such detail, I'm destined to improve my bowyering skills:
 
Incense cedar
61" nock-to-nock

This species, like juniper, is reputed to be best worked green, beginning asap after splitting. It dries fast. The thing is light as a feather.

Also like juniper, it's quite soft.

After a hard day's work, I got home at midnight and worked on my bow til 5 am. I had the top limb bending nicely, but the bottom limb was way, way too stiff so I went after it. Got it just a hair too thin at the low end of the fade, and by the time I made the limb bend as it should, it was too light. Much, much too light.

So I already kicked my ass. Time to climb back up on that horse, and here it is. I decided to stave out one of my most promising half logs of yew, this time I'm not messing around with knots no matter how well placed they are, nor twist & bend no matter how well I think it'll respond to steam.

Title: Re: AGHHHHHHHHGH!!!!!!
Post by: DC on October 16, 2018, 01:42:41 pm
Maybe working on it in the middle of the night ain't such a good idea. ;)

An old bull and a young bull are resting on a hilltop and a bunch of cows wander into the field below them. The young bull says," Let's run down there and kiss one of those cows." The old bull says, "Let's walk down and kiss them all."
Title: Re: AGHHHHHHHHGH!!!!!!
Post by: Pat B on October 16, 2018, 03:30:36 pm
I can see working a green stave down to floor tiller but very little stress is put on a stave just getting to floor tiller. I've never heard of anyone working a green stave any farther than that.
Title: Re: AGHHHHHHHHGH!!!!!!
Post by: Taxus brevifolia on October 16, 2018, 04:17:46 pm
Well, if you check out the guys who make 'em out of juniper and incense cedar, you'll hear about a whole bunch of people who work them green.
Title: Re: AGHHHHHHHHGH!!!!!!
Post by: Pat B on October 16, 2018, 04:28:27 pm
Two things that cause excess set it too much moisture and over stressing a stave. Working a green stave does both.
 Why do the folks that work with juniper and incense cedar only work it green? What is the reasoning behind it?
Title: Re: AGHHHHHHHHGH!!!!!!
Post by: Morgan on October 16, 2018, 04:37:39 pm
I would think that working a stave to a finished or near finished state while green is a bad idea regardless of species or who makes a practice of it. The only reasoning I can think of is that there is a dependency on sinew to overcome set, and it may, but it would be a better bow without the set in the beginning.
Title: Re: AGHHHHHHHHGH!!!!!!
Post by: Taxus brevifolia on October 16, 2018, 11:27:28 pm
Yes, I understand, it's counterintuitive, knowing what we know about yew and osage.

But juniper dries pretty fast. Depending on humidity, 3-4 weeks after staving out the log, it's quite dry. Not like yew at all.

Here's a youtube link to vid from a guy who works with a lot of juniper.
https://youtu.be/K_NyArp2rDE

Jump to 3:40, he talks about working it green.
Title: Re: AGHHHHHHHHGH!!!!!!
Post by: Eric Krewson on October 17, 2018, 06:38:18 am
A tillering gizmo tells you where to remove wood to get your limbs bending correctly. With a gizmo you won't make any 20# bows when you want a 50# bow because your wood removal is much more precise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqvwUqn-EFQ&t=1
Title: Re: AGHHHHHHHHGH!!!!!!
Post by: Taxus brevifolia on October 17, 2018, 08:13:12 am
Thanks Eric!!! I'm definitely checking that out
Title: Re: AGHHHHHHHHGH!!!!!!
Post by: Taxus brevifolia on October 17, 2018, 08:47:26 am
Eric you're a genius, thank you. I have more hope now
Title: Re: AGHHHHHHHHGH!!!!!!
Post by: Pat B on October 17, 2018, 08:49:35 am
What is the R/H where you are and what was the M/C of your stave as you worked it?
Title: Re: AGHHHHHHHHGH!!!!!!
Post by: DC on October 17, 2018, 11:00:58 am
Yes, I understand, it's counterintuitive, knowing what we know about yew and osage.

But juniper dries pretty fast. Depending on humidity, 3-4 weeks after staving out the log, it's quite dry. Not like yew at all.

Here's a youtube link to vid from a guy who works with a lot of juniper.
https://youtu.be/K_NyArp2rDE

Jump to 3:40, he talks about working it green.
Great set of videos. Love your shop Chuck, I would be right at home there :D :D
Title: Re: AGHHHHHHHHGH!!!!!!
Post by: Taxus brevifolia on October 17, 2018, 04:31:16 pm
What is the R/H where you are and what was the M/C of your stave as you worked it?

RH 16% today. That's not unusual.

M/C...hmm moisture content? I've got no idea. I never weighed it to start. But like I said, its light as a feather now, and it ain't gettin' no drier.
Title: Re: AGHHHHHHHHGH!!!!!!
Post by: bradsmith2010 on October 18, 2018, 06:14:41 pm
ok,,,I may have missed some post, I admit I skimmed over it,, but,,, I think putting sinew on it would be a good idea,, it will give you practice at that skill, and it will add weight to the bow,, making the bow twice your draw would be a good start,, it may not be enough to hunt with but it will give you a good idea how sinew works,, just think of it as a learning experience and dont be so hard on yourself,,,you will get the hang of it as you go,, )W(
Title: Re: AGHHHHHHHHGH!!!!!!
Post by: Taxus brevifolia on October 19, 2018, 10:27:58 am
Thanks Brad! I'm back up on that horse.
Title: Re: AGHHHHHHHHGH!!!!!!
Post by: ohma2 on October 19, 2018, 11:18:56 am
You dont leave your wood lay on the bare ground like that all the time do you? hate to see good wood go to waste.
Title: Re: AGHHHHHHHHGH!!!!!!
Post by: Taxus brevifolia on October 19, 2018, 11:20:52 am
It's not on the ground. It's on wood above the ground, and it's covered with a tarp most of the time, and that whole thing is under a canopy.
Title: Re: AGHHHHHHHHGH!!!!!!
Post by: Taxus brevifolia on October 19, 2018, 11:25:07 am
So here it is, my new horse I climbed back up on:
https://youtu.be/gZmUwYrjgMA

And before anyone cracks wise about it, yes I see that slight twist and no, I'm not afraid of it
Title: Re: AGHHHHHHHHGH!!!!!!
Post by: Hawkdancer on October 19, 2018, 10:27:47 pm
Does it bite!  >:D?  Anything that doesn't kill you makes you stronger!
Hawkdancer
Title: Re: AGHHHHHHHHGH!!!!!!
Post by: Taxus brevifolia on October 20, 2018, 01:14:57 am
Thanks H! Yes I'm smarter now at least