Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: tacticalboxing on September 24, 2018, 05:45:53 am

Title: steam bending: pre-soaking?
Post by: tacticalboxing on September 24, 2018, 05:45:53 am
I am about to wood bend a partially completed white oak bow and some have said that I need to put shellac on its backing to prevent checking.
If someone doesn't have shellac what else could be used? Would duct tape work? Also some have said to pre-soak the wood for 24 hours before using steam, would that prevent checking or would that still provide other advantages as well?
Should I do one or the other or both?
Please help good friends
Title: Re: steam bending: pre-soaking?
Post by: Pat B on September 24, 2018, 06:33:45 am
The thing about shellac is it can take the heat and moisture unlike most other products. You can buy a can of spray shellac for about $8 at your local hardware store.
Title: Re: steam bending: pre-soaking?
Post by: gfugal on September 24, 2018, 10:37:17 am
Tite bond 3 should work too if you have it. In testing the glue the did systematic tests where the boiled it several times, and the glue still held up. I'm going to experiment with Thompson's wood sealer but I don't have anything to report on it, I'm thinking it might work but I'm not sure.
Title: Re: steam bending: pre-soaking?
Post by: Pat B on September 24, 2018, 10:46:29 am
Thompson's water seal probably won't work. It hardly works well on a deck and the problem with TBIII, it might seal well but will be hard to remove if you want to. Shellac is carried with alcohol and can be removed with a rag wet with alcohol.
Title: Re: steam bending: pre-soaking?
Post by: gfugal on September 24, 2018, 11:23:48 am
Thompson's water seal probably won't work. It hardly works well on a deck and the problem with TBIII, it might seal well but will be hard to remove if you want to. Shellac is carried with alcohol and can be removed with a rag wet with alcohol.

Good reasonings. Thank you! I probably will try the Thompson's on a test piece still just cause it's so stinking cheap. Maybe it wears out with age, but if its fresh maybe it can hold up to the one time use of steaming? It won't hurt to try, but I won't get my hopes up.
Title: Re: steam bending: pre-soaking?
Post by: tacticalboxing on September 24, 2018, 11:50:02 am
So, does anyone think that pre-soaking would guard against checking?
Either way, what are the benefits of pre-soaking it in water for 24 hours before steaming?
Title: Re: steam bending: pre-soaking?
Post by: Pat B on September 24, 2018, 11:56:45 am
The stave will only check if it still has moisture in it. Checks are drying cracks. Soaking may aid in the bending but it is adding moisture to the stave to do so. The reason I like spray shellac(I keep a can on my work bench all the time) because it seals well with the moisture and heat but it is easily removed with denatured alcohol.
 I think Thompson's water seal is just linseed oil and alcohol or something similar.
Title: Re: steam bending: pre-soaking?
Post by: gfugal on September 24, 2018, 12:15:49 pm
So, does anyone think that pre-soaking would guard against checking?
Either way, what are the benefits of pre-soaking it in water for 24 hours before steaming?
Yeah, I would say pre-soaking would increase the chance of checking because as I understand it checking is from water leaving the stave quickly. If you introduce more water it is more likely to leave quickly.
Title: Re: steam bending: pre-soaking?
Post by: DC on September 24, 2018, 12:35:08 pm
How much are you bending it. Pre soaking is for fairly drastic bends. If you are just straightening a bit or flipping the tips I don't think it's necessary. I've never used White Oak but it seems to me it's on the top of the list of easy to bend woods, isn't it?
Title: Re: steam bending: pre-soaking?
Post by: gfugal on September 24, 2018, 01:13:54 pm
If you are worried about bending it without breaking it, soaking might help, but using something like a metal strip to keep the fibers down might work better.

On the other hand if your more worried about checking then maybe drying it out with a hot box, or heat gun may help. But I would go with sealing the wood somehow like mentioned earlier.
Title: Re: steam bending: pre-soaking?
Post by: tacticalboxing on September 24, 2018, 07:59:54 pm
yes, DC I have a chart that says that white oak is the  second best wood to steam bend. Well out of the ones on the list anyway.
Title: Re: steam bending: pre-soaking?
Post by: tacticalboxing on September 24, 2018, 08:03:59 pm
I am trying to straighten it but also put some reflex and deflex in it. This is my first time so I was just trying to hedge my bets by pre soaking if it would increase my chances of success. But I trust you guys so if you all think its not necessary I won't do so. :)
Title: Re: steam bending: pre-soaking?
Post by: simson on September 25, 2018, 12:16:34 pm
I have never presoaked any wood for bending, I also don't use shellac for this procedure.
Like Pat said, checking is the answer when the stave is still wet, or when you steam too long..
Work down to near dimensions, then make the bend with about 20-30 min in the steamer (belongs to wood thickness)
Title: Re: steam bending: pre-soaking?
Post by: tacticalboxing on September 27, 2018, 11:59:54 am
ty simson for your input
so I will not  be pre soaking it, 
but one question: you say to only steam it for about 20-30 minutes, is that typical for a bow?
I have heard 45 minutes from most and a few said about an hour.
Does it depend on the type of wood and whether it is green or seasoned?
Title: Re: steam bending: pre-soaking?
Post by: DC on September 27, 2018, 12:35:14 pm
General rule is one hour per inch of wood. Green wood a little less. Most of the time we're bending wood about 1/2" thick so that is the half hour. Google "the Veritas steaming booklet" but remember that most of our bends are quite mild and the strap isn't necessary. It is with sharp, small radius recurves. Practicing with off cuts and scraps is never a bad idea.
Title: Re: steam bending: pre-soaking?
Post by: simson on September 27, 2018, 01:16:09 pm
ty simson for your input
so I will not  be pre soaking it, 
but one question: you say to only steam it for about 20-30 minutes, is that typical for a bow?
I have heard 45 minutes from most and a few said about an hour.
Does it depend on the type of wood and whether it is green or seasoned?

As said, I work down to near dimensions  -  so 20-30 min is enough.
Some wood species like the steaming, some not. I have no white oak here, so I cannot say if it like or not the bending.
I use only seasoned wood, green wood mostly checks because the steaming causes aprubtly moisture loss.
Title: Re: steam bending: pre-soaking?
Post by: tacticalboxing on September 28, 2018, 05:41:05 am
General rule is one hour per inch of wood. Green wood a little less. Most of the time we're bending wood about 1/2" thick so that is the half hour. Google "the Veritas steaming booklet" but remember that most of our bends are quite mild and the strap isn't necessary. It is with sharp, small radius recurves. Practicing with off cuts and scraps is never a bad idea.

Okay, I will try it at 30 minutes and will read the veritas pamphlet. It is very informative . Ty so much for sharing that.
Title: Re: steam bending: pre-soaking?
Post by: tacticalboxing on September 28, 2018, 05:45:45 am

As said, I work down to near dimensions  -  so 20-30 min is enough.
Some wood species like the steaming, some not. I have no white oak here, so I cannot say if it like or not the bending.
I use only seasoned wood, green wood mostly checks because the steaming causes aprubtly moisture loss.

White oak is abundant here in the Piedmont area of the Carolinas, and it seems to be one of the best woods for steam bending, so I should be good to go. What kind of woods are you using in Bavaria? Just curious my family is from the Moravian German immigration. :)