Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Bootthrower on March 09, 2018, 03:06:38 pm
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Hello!
I have recently thought of starting to make my own bows.
I have an abundance of European Ash (F. Excelsior) and was thinking about making an English longbow!
Now, I know that an English longbow isn't the easiest first bow, but to be honest it is the only bow type I'm after.
I have gotten permission from my landlord to cut down a nice, straight, ash that I reckon is between 25-30cm in diameter, but my question is if I have the correct idea of what to do once it's down?
I was going to, at least, split it into quarters after cutting it into 2m pieces. Then i was thinking of coating it in paint, to protect it from cracking to much, and bundle all the "staves" together with rope to minimize the risk of bending when drying.
Is this the correct way of handling ash once it's down?
Also, how long should I dry it? or rather, when do I know when the moisture-content is right? so that it's dry enough to make a decent bow, yet not so dry that it's too brittle.
I've heard that ash is better suited for a rectangular cross-section that is more broad than deep, and that such a cross section is somewhat authentic for an ash longbow, would that be true?
Lastly, what are some good measurements for an ash ELB? I don't reckon I'll be able to make a high-poundage bow on the first try, but I'd like to know the measurements for an authentic English Warbow! but measurements for a low-medium poundage bow would be greatly appreciated as well!
I don't know if it matters but I live in Sweden!
Thanks in advance for any help I might get!
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I have made a couple ash bows but not elb, and I used wood glue on the ends + 30 cm inwards, think thats enough if you store it somewhere thats a bit cool to start with. cover the whole thing if you want to be safe. Instead of bundling i would clamp each one down to a sturdy wood board. Clamp two of them and rough out the other two and then clamp them too. Getting them to floor tiller to reduce drying time, then you wont have to wait half a year before you can start making bows. Weigh the roughed out ones on an accurate kitchen weight, when they stop losing weight they are dry, probably going to take a few weeks. Cross section is true, rectangular and slightly rounded edges, very sharp edges can make it break. Norwegian warbows.com used to have measurments but i think the site is down atm. Richard head longbows videos on youtube are helpful
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Yes, I have seen some of the videos from Richard Head Longbows.
Thanks for the info! It is very helpful!
Just one thing though. I don't have access to any accurate scales except one that only goes down to hectograms. will that do, or do I need a finer one? If so, are there any alternatives since I don't really have the money for a good scale (broke 15 year old)?
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Go on the warbow section and towards the top there was a post with a link that has white wood warbow measurements. . With white woods I would make the cross section look like an over inflated rectangle. Still rectangular but with enough curve to be comfortable to hold. And after you get your tapers cut and all sanded. Heat treat. It’ll help quite a bit in the set department. With ash as it is tension strong and this design put more stress on the belly than more flat designs.
For a more target weight bow. I would go 1 1/8” wide at the handle, parallel for 6-8” either way of center, then straight taper to 3/8” tips. Make it about 72” long. For initial thickness I would start about 1/8” shallower than wide. Then the last third of the limbs transition to 3/8” thick to match the width. Start with a rounded cornered rectangle when you first start tillering as it’ll help keep it from twisting. Then round the belly and sides a smidge as it comes back.
Kyle
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Thanks a lot for the measurements and design! Really great!
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Not a problem. The measurements might not be perfect, but should get you close enough to get you a starting point. And an interesting part about tillering this type of bow. Is that sometimes they will twist to the side and pull everything out of alignment. All you have to do is scrape the belly side corner of the direction you need the tip to go. You can even use that to align the string with the handle if it’s off a little. It may not be the correct way, but it’s worked for me so far.
Kyle
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You are on the right track. As you say, ash is not really ideal for ELB styles, but it isn't hopeless. Make the bow nice and long, be careful while tillering, and heat treat it well when the time comes.
The warbow section does have a lot of good info. That's where I'll go when it's my turn.
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Thank you all for the great information and tips! The only thing I'm still unsure about is the drying.
As stated I don't have a more accurate scale than hectograms. I'm guessing this isn't precise enough? I don't really have the money for a better scale, so is hectograms enough, or not? If not, then is there another way of knowing when to work the wood?
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You need scale that measures grams accurately, like a kitchen weight that goes up to 3000 g. Hecto is too big. You will get a kitchen weight for just 100-300 sek i believe
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Thanks, I'll look into it! Thanks a lot for the help!
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Not sure there's much point clamping it to anything... if wood is going to warp, it will warp. IMO it's better to let it do it's thing then at least you know it's less likely to shift later. Mind, even blocks of Walnut that have been seasoned for 20 years for gun stocks can still shift!
Most important thing with seasoning is airflow... I think it unlikely that you could get Ash too dry by seasoning unless you live in Death Valley >:D
Rough out with plenty of extra width to allow for any movement and it also helps stop any sideways bend. Tips can be narrowed once it's back to brace and flexing nicely.
IMO 90# is a reasonable target weight to start with. Personally I wouldn't go much heavier with Ash, though it depends on the quality of the wood.
Del
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Del knows this stuff 100 x better than I do so I would take his advice, if you don`t clamp it you might get some nice reflex too it aswell. And you dont need to buy clamps :) I`m actually studying Dels instructionable on fitting horn nocks as we speak, lots of good info on his blog http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.no/
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Thank you both for the advice, but do you mean I should work it fresh when you say it's unlikely to dry by seasoning, or just that I shouldn't expect it to dry out as well as other woods with seasoning?
Also, I should just let the staves sit flat on the floor in a well ventilated area, or should I secure them in any way?
In essense, how should I store it properly and for what amount of time?
Sorry if I'm slow at catching how this works, but I've never dried/stored wood or made a bow before..
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If you rough it into a slightly bigger-than-finished bow-shaped stave, it will dry faster. Just leave it a bit wide (to help with shifting as it dries) and thick (can't put wood back on). I would store the staves horizontally, not vertically, if possible. Rafters in our garage work well for me. You can weigh them every week or so and note when they stop losing weight - that means they are dry enough to work more.
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To clarify:-
It is a very rough rule of thumb that wood seasons at a rate of 1 year for every inch of thickness. So you can see the more it is reduced the quicker it will season. But you don't want to reduce it too close to final dimensions because it will move and bend (mind, it can always be heat corrected later).
Don't have wood touching the ground while being seasoned, it needs to be somewhere dry with plenty of airflow, Don't have it outside with a tarpaulin over it, as that will just trap moisture and stop airflow. (IMO airflow is more important than temerature... think of drying clothes outside... you want a windy day)
Space your staves away from each other with off cuts of timber to allow air circulation.
I have mine on shelves in my garage which has a big badly fitting door at one end, at the other end I have opened up a 2" slot above the door to allow airflow. I can feel the airflow when I'm up on the step ladder getting a stave.
Pic of shelves and staves here:-
https://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/yew-primitive-progress.html (https://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/yew-primitive-progress.html)
In the UK (and I'd imagine Sweden) it is no problem to season wood, and it won't get too dry, as I said, it would have to be in a very hot or dry climate to get it too dry.
I generally start working a stave down closer to final dimension after 9 months and then really start work after a year.
If you are in a hurry you could take one of the worse staves and give it a month to start drying and then put it somewhere really warm (I have a nice long radiator that I use for rapid seasoning, curing glue-ups etc :) )
I hope this all makes sense.
Del
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Okey, I've now cut down the tree and I got two 2m logs from it and a shorter 1m log (arrow shafts possibly).
I didn't have enough sunlight left to split them into staves, but I applied a layer of paint on the ends to hopefully prevent cracks.
Tommorrow I will split them into staves and rough them out into something close to a bow. I will also go on the lookout for a proper scale ;)
How do these rings look? (Pics should be attached)
I noticed small cracks had already formed on one log when I applied the paint, is this a problem?
The areas with the tighter rings make for a better quality bow? or have I gotten that wrong?
Could someone give me measurements for the 'rough stave' (or 'drying shape') if I'm aiming for a 90# bow?
Forgive my many questions, but this is the first time I do something like this and I want to avoid making too many mistakes.
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I actually have very good luck getting wood to dry straight by clamping it. It is VITAL for me to secure staves or roughed out blanks from small diameter saplings, or they aren't worth the work and risk later. I do, however, essentially floor tiller, then clamp again and do my heat treatment so they stay.
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Interesting.. Do you think the same applies for larger diameter trees, or would it work to not clamp? (I honestly don't even have clamps)
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Staves split from larger diameter trees seem not to do it as much. For one thing you can leave them more massive and dry them more slowly, and their own bulk resists some of the warpage. Obviously, they can twist and warp, but you ususally find out as soon as you split it if they are going to. It just seems saplings and branches WANT to go off in every direction.
I think it's because they are young and growing fairly dense wood very quickly, branching out, etc, so each year the tree is doing something different as it grows that year's ring. Like this year it grows a long branch at the top on one side, reaching for sunlight. But, last year this other tree had a large drooping branch leaning on it, and next year that tree will be dead and open up sunlight on that side, so the weight will shift, etc... reaction wood all over the place.
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Makes sense. Tanks a lot for the tips!
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I've now split the logs! It worked great and they are now layered in a shed with good airflow!
I found a good scale too!
Now I'm on the lookout for a drawknife to trim the staves into shape..
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Get a high quality draw knife, it's a long-term investment and it pays off both in terms of the joy using it and the quality of the end product.
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Then I'll make sure to get a good one!