Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: JWMALONE on February 16, 2018, 04:33:31 pm

Title: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: JWMALONE on February 16, 2018, 04:33:31 pm
Well fellows if at first you don't succeed........ So ive got a 64 inch t2t bamboo backed ipe in the clamps. It will be 1 inch wide out 6 inches tapering to .5 inch tips.  Put some reflex in there, I kinda followed Pat b on his ALB lemon wood build. Lets see what happens.

https://imgur.com/a/PxYOI
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: gfugal on February 16, 2018, 04:41:14 pm
You sir have a lot of clamps. Is that a pretty stiff bamboo? I'm worried the Ipe will overpower it, but I'm no expert.
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: Badger on February 16, 2018, 05:00:22 pm
  That is a pretty safe design, at longer than 26" draw you might get a little stacking with the reflex coming right out of the handle. Careful tillering you can avoid it but you have to be careful not to get the area just outside the fades from bending too much.
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: JWMALONE on February 16, 2018, 05:22:01 pm
gfugal, the bamboo I worked down as recommended by others who have experience with this combo. !/8 inch in the handle to 1/16 at the tips. I went maybe a tad under, we are talking 64ths.
badger, I hope its a safe design. My actual draw is 26.25 so it should be ok. Thanks for the heads up on the fades.
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: gfugal on February 16, 2018, 05:24:33 pm
ggugal, the bamboo I worked down as recommended by others who have experience with this combo. !/8 inch in the handle to 1/16 at the tips. I went maybe a tad under, we are talking 64ths.
badger, I hope its a safe design. My actual draw is 26.25 so it should be ok. Thanks for the heads up on the fades.
They would know more than me. So disregard what I said.
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: JWMALONE on February 16, 2018, 05:42:47 pm
It was a good question gfugal. That's why I start these threads. I'm no expert but there are lots of question that get asked and answered, lots of comments and advice others may find useful. I like reading others follow along help along type threads, so comment away.
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: PatM on February 16, 2018, 05:45:17 pm
What glue are you using?  You may still be able to  crank down the mid limbs to distribute the reflex out a bit.
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: JWMALONE on February 16, 2018, 06:16:34 pm
I used tb2, its way to late to adjust. Hard to tell in the pic but its not as abrupt as it looks. I will get some better ones tomorrow when it comes out.
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: Pat B on February 16, 2018, 07:13:12 pm
Damn, the splinters from the last one hardly all hit the floor before you have another one on the form.
OK, this one will be a screamer!   ::)
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: Badger on February 16, 2018, 07:29:57 pm
  Your bamboo looks good, I think this one will be a success.
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: JWMALONE on February 16, 2018, 07:37:16 pm
Badger I thinking it will, just in case I got a batch of blue berry wine on stand by.
Pat, I had prepped this one mostly while the last one was clamped up, id be doing that now with another one if I had more wood.
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: JWMALONE on February 17, 2018, 04:54:49 pm
Well fellows she is out of the clamps. I cleaned the edges got the handle area closer to finish and put a facet on the bamboo back.  I tapered the belly from 1/2 inch to 3/8 before glue up based on what I saw while tillering the last piece of ipe, seemed to be just right.. I didn't want to go pushing it during a proper floor tiller for fear of snapping the ipe. Its pretty stiff out of the clamps, but I have enough wood to work with to accomplish a good tiller and go for the weight I want. So far so good. It has one inch of reflex, that's measured belly up, distance from back to table.
(https://i.imgur.com/Lt2x02Jl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/TfEnXMul.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/RuwmI0vl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/NfrRomvl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/MGDlVLel.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/DsBqCTQl.jpg)
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: Badger on February 17, 2018, 05:07:28 pm
  That looks great, your taper should work out pretty good.
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: JWMALONE on February 17, 2018, 05:11:36 pm
I'm going to start writing these measurements down for future reference.
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: Badger on February 17, 2018, 05:15:19 pm
I'm going to start writing these measurements down for future reference.

   I always tell myself I am going to write them down but I never do. I make a lot of laminated bows all different styles and draw weights so they are all very different. 95% of what I do is a simple boo or wood backed bow as yours is but I confess the multilams are my favorite, just a lot more work.
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: JWMALONE on February 17, 2018, 05:19:21 pm
Yea I don't always follow through on my better ideas.
You think I can get #70 out of this one?
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: Badger on February 17, 2018, 06:47:16 pm
  For 70# I would rough it out at slightly over 1 1/2", Since the first of the year I have built a 90# 85# 50# 70# and 110# boo backed ipe English longbows. They are quite a bit narrower and deeper but I still reflex them a couple of inches.
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: JWMALONE on February 17, 2018, 06:55:42 pm
I'm at 1 1/16 maybe I should stick with 55-60
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: Morgan on February 18, 2018, 09:53:07 am
Looks great jw
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: Springbuck on February 18, 2018, 03:57:19 pm
You sir have a lot of clamps. Is that a pretty stiff bamboo? I'm worried the Ipe will overpower it, but I'm no expert.

Maybe it's just us, but I keep telling new guys that the first thing you buy is a lot of clamps!   I use rubber bands for gluing, and still need so many!
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: Springbuck on February 18, 2018, 04:00:53 pm
  That is a pretty safe design.

This is why Steve is the true master.  That looks to me like more reflex than my tillering skills would handle at 1"  wide.  I'D be intimidated. .   I have confidence in your MATERIALS, though.  Boo and Ipe can do it.   
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: JWMALONE on February 18, 2018, 05:06:15 pm
Hey guys, I planted snow peas today so I just got started tillering. She's still stiff, I put a tight long string on there so I could fell it better. On the tree it doesn't bend straight out of the fade but about 4-5 inches out so I think I'm in good shape. I will leave that alone until I can get the rest of the limbs working more .
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: JWMALONE on February 18, 2018, 07:17:26 pm
Hows it going guys? It will bend about 4 inches. I don't like the pulley system, it feels like a hundred pounds after only a couple inches. Every thing is in line and stable, its a good pulley. How do you fellows do yours.
(https://i.imgur.com/gpcLlOml.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/a67NZ6Tl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/hhS7PzBl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/6c9xwMcl.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/exsecpol.jpg)
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: DC on February 18, 2018, 07:22:59 pm
I use two pulleys and get a 2:1 mechanical advantage.
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: JWMALONE on February 18, 2018, 07:31:45 pm
I thought about that DC, wonder if my deer hoist would work.
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: Badger on February 18, 2018, 07:32:25 pm
  Keep your scale on during this process and don't pull past your target weight. As long as the bow is too strong in all part of the limb you can't hurt anything pulling to full target weight. When you start hitting your target weight around 23" pull you are ready to string. It will still be target weight at 23" after bracing.
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: JWMALONE on February 18, 2018, 07:36:13 pm
Badger that reminds me, I have a good scale but its a luggage scale. Thought about getting one from three rivers. What do you guys use?
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: DC on February 18, 2018, 07:45:02 pm
Luggage scale. This is my setup. Don't know if you can see it very well.
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: Badger on February 18, 2018, 07:59:35 pm
 Luggage scale should be fine as long as it handles the weight you want. A lot of guys use luggage scales. I use an old Hansen spring scale, it stays outside rain or shine for the past 20 years and is still accurate. It has gone flying from bow explosions hundreds of times.
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: JWMALONE on February 18, 2018, 08:20:18 pm
When I said luggage scale I meant one that's meant to be hand held. I have a 4 by 4 I clamp into the vice and hook the scale to it. It cant be used the way you guys have yours set up.
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: JWMALONE on February 18, 2018, 08:21:39 pm
oh yea, I gained 3/16 of reflex.
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: Springbuck on February 18, 2018, 08:40:47 pm
I'm confused. It looked like a ton of reflex on the clamps, and much less on the tree.  What did you glue in, and what did you get to keep when the clamps came off? 
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: JWMALONE on February 18, 2018, 08:50:04 pm
When I glued it up I used 2by4 blocks  which is 3.5 inches tall, the handle is 1 .5  so that's 2 inches and it came out of the clamps with one inch even. That's measured by laying it belly up and measuring from the table to backing at the handle. Now I have 1 3/16 total. I was Following Pat B. and hoping to come out flat after shoot in, if it keeps a lil that's fine to.
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: DC on February 18, 2018, 09:08:30 pm
Look like these?
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: JWMALONE on February 18, 2018, 09:16:09 pm
No ill take a pic tomorrow, the read out is on the handle. Its accurate but cant be used the way I want. 
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: Springbuck on February 21, 2018, 09:31:06 pm
OK, must have been an optical illusion.
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: bjrogg on February 22, 2018, 06:33:12 am
My son got me a fishing scales. I'm not sure how accurate it is but it feels right and is something consistent. I don't remember what it goes up to but it's at least 70lbs.  Really nice to have a scales in line.
Bjrogg
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: JWMALONE on March 06, 2018, 08:47:38 pm
Hello guys, had to work a lot so been gone a week or so.
 Here is were I'm at, its not really braced but the string is super tight, I needed a stringer to get it on. It pulls #40 @16 inches, I'm shooting for #50. Ive never used bamboo, ipe or tillered a reflex bow, which is now up to 1 3/8.
 I guess the inner limbs need to move more, also toward the outer.
For some reason it just feels different than the others ive done. Feels like it gets heavy real fast all of a sudden once it hits #40?
(https://i.imgur.com/JJ5oozvl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/MRHIkXxl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Q9KVSacl.jpg)
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: Pat B on March 06, 2018, 09:37:19 pm
John, will you post a pic of the unbraced profile.
 I have trouble tillering R/D style bows, I have trouble seeing good tiller.  I would leave the inner limbs alone until you get her tillered out a bit. You can probably go to low brace now but it's still a bit heavy.
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: JWMALONE on March 06, 2018, 10:05:58 pm
Pat, Ill get one tomorrow before I do any more.
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: burchett.donald on March 07, 2018, 06:59:32 am
  JW,
          I see a flat spot just out of the right fade...Looking good man...
                                                                                                         Don
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: JWMALONE on March 07, 2018, 09:43:39 am
Unbraced profile pic. The reflex now reads 1 1/4. that's belly up measure from tables to back at the handle.
 Don I got that marked with my gizmo, its on both sides cant tell from the pic though.
(https://i.imgur.com/lhj7jmUl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/VVErymfl.jpg)
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: JWMALONE on March 07, 2018, 01:32:53 pm
#47 @23 inches.
(https://i.imgur.com/D0ZXJ0fl.jpg)
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: Badger on March 07, 2018, 02:31:21 pm
  What's your target weight?? Have you changed it from the 70#. I notice you are reporting what 47# is at 23". I hit target weight right from the very beginning and keep it there till I hit desired draw length. Impossible to come in light that way. Also if you have an area of the bow that is starting to bend too much you find out early and can back off.
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: JWMALONE on March 07, 2018, 02:44:33 pm
Badger, I decided to go for #50.  A nice easy shooter for summer yet still heavy enough for hunting.  I usually do as you said and pull to target as soon as it bends even. But this is my first reflex, I got the mid limbs bending faster than the fade area. If I pulled it to 50 all the stress would have been concentrated in the mid limb area. I guess what I'm saying is this was kinda like my first bow all over again, next time I think I can get it bending even a lot sooner.
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: Badger on March 07, 2018, 03:01:36 pm
  I figured that, I was teasing you a little, once you get used to building more bows you will find that going up to target weight while you know everything is still to strong makes it easier.
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: JWMALONE on March 07, 2018, 04:35:19 pm
Well just shy of full draw. How does she look?
(https://i.imgur.com/wuPH5NZl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/EmEr7ZKl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/mefh1PHl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZZfi6eFl.jpg)
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: Badger on March 07, 2018, 04:52:47 pm
   Looking good!
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: JWMALONE on March 07, 2018, 05:28:10 pm
Put 50 arrows through her and still have a 1/4 inch reflex and it reads #50.6 @26 inches (luck) if it drops a couple I'm still happy as can be. Its really zippy with 450 grain arrows which are my small game arrows. I'm loving it so far.
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: JWMALONE on March 07, 2018, 08:33:02 pm
Still has about 3/8ths of the original one inch of reflex, even if it works out flat I'm happy, no set.
(https://i.imgur.com/s5HAqNQl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/wBuAGAjl.jpg)
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: Morgan on March 07, 2018, 09:50:46 pm
Brother, I think she looks good!
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: Pat B on March 07, 2018, 10:01:34 pm
Looks great John.  :OK
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: JWMALONE on March 07, 2018, 10:15:28 pm
Think I may try that reflex stuff again. I got lucky with hitting the weight. Next time I know how to go about it a lil better. Good thing is I needed something lighter than the #58 pounders to shoot, I can still pull them just fine but every day is gonna be hell on my left shoulder.
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: Badger on March 08, 2018, 12:00:43 am
  That came out very nice, I doubt you will loose any more reflex, maybe a tad.
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: leonwood on March 08, 2018, 03:33:06 am
Real nice job, congrats! Bet it keeps the reflex, my bbi’s always do at that width and length.
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: burchett.donald on March 08, 2018, 06:58:10 am
  Perty good for a Carolina Guy...Absolutely not one stiff area...Does she feel balanced JW...
                                                                                                                                        Don
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: Bob W. on March 08, 2018, 07:04:19 am
Very nice tiller, Ipe and Bamboo are a match made in heaven!
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: JWMALONE on March 08, 2018, 08:49:52 am
Thanks guys.
 Don it feels perfect. I was following that thread you started on balanced in the hand. I tried to tiller based on how it felt when exercising the bow.I didn't use a yard stick or graph paper behind it on the tree or any of the usual stuff after I got it bending. Mostly because I was scared to leave it hooked on the tree that long after the last one blew up. I did use a gizmo a few times at the end just in case.
   I would like to be able to tiller one without a lot of crutches so to speak. I marked out what I thought was a flat spot with a white pencil and then checked with a gizmo to see how close I was. I done alright. Probably always use a gizmo as it will spot tiny flat spots I couldn't see. I would like to know I could tiller a decent bow in a pinch if I didn't have all the fancy modern gadgets. Kinda like Jim Davis, I like that fellow.
Title: Re: BBI lets try it again.
Post by: BowEd on March 08, 2018, 09:33:14 am
Very nice work JW.I like it.Congrats on the success!!!