Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: sleek on October 03, 2017, 07:16:20 pm
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Hypothetical question of course, because I would NEVER have these problems EVER because I am WAY better than that lol.....
So if you hinge a bow and develope chrysals, then you fix the hinge, relieving the strain, but you still see those bad boys, are they still a problem even though the tiller has been corrected?
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From what I've seen,once the belly is crushed,it will fall out of tiller again in short order .been wrong before though!
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I dont think there is really any way to fix it,,
that being said, I crysaled a locust bow,, close to the fades, and evened the tiller,,its still shooting 20 years later,, but I think it was very minor,, so I guess there are some varying degrees of damage that could change the outcome,, I think on an overbuilt design, you would have better luck than something highly stressed,
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My experience has been like Brads, I have chyrsaled nearly every locust bow I have built, they took a little set but still remained decent shooters. White woods and most other woods I consider toast if they have chrysaled
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This hypothetical bow has taken 1 inch of set, is osage, and shoots very well. With it being osage badfer, does it fall into the " toast " category?
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Here is a pic of the chrysals.
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Jim Davis has an interesting fix for compression fractures that involves removing the damage completely and replacing it with new wood. Seems tricky to do right, but he swears by it. I've never tried it so I have no opinion as to it's merit.
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I really dont have much experience with frets on osage,,that looks bad, but cant tell what part of the bow its on,, I guess in theory, if you could tiller so that part is stiff it might make it, I am just guessing,,
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Lower limb, right where the thermostat on the wall lower left corner points is exactly where they are.
Tiller is a little off. Lower limb bends a bit more than I want.
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With that overstressed design i think you ae toast maybe shoot it till it fails, i wouldn't let it out of my hands personally even if i came up with a "fix"
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If I had a bow fret like that I'd cut it up and cook some burgers with it. I would not be able to fully trust it. No way I would trust someone else shooting it.
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Well, it shoots so nice, i may pike it to get it down to 40#@26, and make it a target bow for me. Maybe rawhide back it just incase. Shoot it till it breaks.
Probably shorten the upper limb and flip the bow end for end, putting the damage on the upper limb instead if the lower.
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Sleek, those chrysals don't look like a candidate for my kind of fix. I plug smaller spots of soft wood or missing knots. I do think that limb could be set up in a fixture and a section of the belly removed with a router, then a new piece fitted tightly to the routed area and glued in. But is it worth it? I think leaving the bow as is and shooting it is a reasonable approach.
Here's one of my small patches.
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Jim, i believe when it comes to inlaying you are the king. I thank you for the reply, but I believe this bow will be left as it is. I will onday put your patch method to use, very genius i must sah by the way.
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Is this part of the new line of bows you are offering on-line? Dude, you are 0 for whatever on them. The one you handed me blew splinters all over the back and this one fractured all to hell. I wouldn't be so eager to pawn them off as a new line of bows when none have survived. Remember, you are representing ALL of us in this hobby when you try to sell junk. I'm always surprised how often I hear, "I never knew a self bow could shoot so good". That comes from people getting junk self bows and assuming they are all the same. My bows are very far from special. They are just built right, like many other bowyers build.
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Pearl, if a guy can say anything at all about you, its that you speak your mind. I gadda say I like it. And you have a very valid point, its important to do it right for the sake of everyone.
But I do have to say if I remember right, the one I handed you didnt blow splinters all over the back while you were shooting it. And it had them fromwhen I was making it, deflexing the fades caused them to lift. It did have a crack on the back from over drawing it, and I told you that. Also, i plan on sinew backing it, and keeping it, not selling it or giving it away.
Not to mention, i made that bow long time back, it was my first or second super short bow I made. It was also the shortest bow, at 45 inches in total length, i dont make them that short anymore. I now make them 54 inches long, and when strung they are 50 inches long. Thats short enough for me but plently long enough for the draw length
As for this new line of bows, and none having survived, of course I have had a few failures, this is a bow I learned to make, my own design, had to make all the mistakes myself. But I have had most of them survive and shoot very well. More importantly, the ones that failed, failed in my hands not the customers, because I make certain what I send out is good to last, I shit the crap out of them, I go to full draw and hold them there for several seconds in a row and repeat this many many times. My short bows have low to average set, meaning they are not over strained.
The bow this thread is about has this problem for two main reasons, I over drew it with a poor tillet to get a photo for a tikler reference ( i dont have a tree so snap shots help ) and it has a pin knot on the belly there, casing the chrysals to focus in that spot. I made a mistake, and the wood had a flaw. My bow deaign itself is not flawed.
Anyway, point is Chis, I reapect your opinion, and am actually grateful you have the balls to actually say something when you think its wrong. But in this case, you dont have all the facts correct and it is throwing your opinion off.
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Sleek, how bout trying lower the weight a bit, and leave that area stiffer,,
this thread is not about selling bows, but I will say,, when I did sell bows 20 years ago,
I usually erred on the side of slightly overbuilt for bows going to clients,,
my failure rate was minimul,, I would also give a new design to someone that shot alot, and after the bow was shot many 1000 times,, I figured it was a good design and proceeded to sell and make that design,,anything questionable I kept for myself,,
Mike Prince tested most my bows,, state and national champion,, he would shoot 200 arrows a day minimum,,if anything was gonna fail he would find it,,
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I didn't shoot that bow you handed me, I drew it once and handed it back like a grenade with the pin pulled because I know what I'm looking at.
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I didn't shoot that bow you handed me, I drew it once and handed it back like a grenade with the pin pulled because I know what I'm looking at.
Was this at Ojam? I thought that was somebody else if so. And it that was you, 2 years ago, I told you to pull it back, if it broke I didnt care, it was an experiment anyways. My short bows have come a long ways in the last 2 years.
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If it was Marshall, then I am not certain what bow it eas you are talking about. I dont recall you drawing any of my bows. But my memory does leave much to be desired.
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Actually, I think I remember the bow you are talking about. Its a birch bark covered sinew backed osage bow 49" long over all, pulls 70 pounds at 28 inches. Im proud of that bow. JohnW has it now, and from what I understand, loves that bow.
Here are a few pics if it so folks reading kniw whats being taljed about. The full draw shot here is neat, it was taken right in release, that arrow looks a mile long!
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Back to the original bow problem. This is the tiller that caused it. Stiff upper limb, and a weak spot on the lower. Combine that with a pin knot and voila, text book chrysals. Looks like I made a mistake. But still wonder, now the tiller is fixed, stresses relieved, is the bow fine? Will chrysals break a back? Im of the opinion no, because if they do, they would have. So its just a bow with a scar in the wood now?
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Forgot to add the pic. Whoops. You can see well that bad tiller I had.
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Dwspite troublws with that limb with the pin knot, the other limb came out fine. This is how it looks after close to 100 arrows through it. It hasnt been braced in 5 hours either. Literally flat as a board.
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You obviously know that you shouldn't have been pulling it with the tiller so far off.
As for is it ok now.....no!
You need to understand what you have done to the wood. It is toast. When making a bow we are trying to keep the wood in as fresh a state as possible. The warning signs are a hint of set and lower weight reading ala Badgers no set tillering. Then more set, then hinges then chrysals if you ignore all the previous signs. Hey we all make mistakes but don't kid yourself it is ok now as everybody else said above it is done....time to cut in half and keep the good limb :)
Look up Adam Karpowzis extreme reflex/deflex bow if you want some ideas.
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Hypothetical question of course, because I would NEVER have these problems EVER because I am WAY better than that lol.....
So if you hinge a bow and develope chrysals, then you fix the hinge, relieving the strain, but you still see those bad boys, are they still a problem even though the tiller has been corrected?
If got the frets - some cast is lost. Even tiller seems to be ok.